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Recent Comments:
- Ari Sargent: @Aaron: The policy is effective now. We haven’t quite finished the development to make the...
- Aaron: I love rss
Right now i am about to buy a spring is sprung special but have the message “We estimate... - Ari Sargent: @Mark: fyi - we are putting the spring pack back on the shelf later today for 1 week only. We have also...
- Ari Sargent: @Mark: 1. The spring packs were a discounted product to encourage customers to buy them in advance. Your...
- Mark: @Ari Oops!
I take number 2 back. I’d completely forgotten about the “Available unit...
Just joined powershop and expecting good deals - Your website estimated savings from 200 - 400 per annum. Prices are only around 2% lower (inc. the daily charges) compared to my old supplier.
With wholesale electricity = $0.01 / Kwh in March 2009, (check this http://www.electricitycommission.govt.nz/pdfs/opdev/wholesale/wholesalepdfs/8Mar09.pdf )
I’m hoping we, customers, can benefit from this situation.
March 12th, 2009 at 10:57 amOur current fixed line/daily charge is around 80c per day. How is is that Powershop can include these in tariffs which are still only around 20c each?
March 16th, 2009 at 6:46 pmPowershop has a lower operating cost than most retailers due to the fact that we operate online. These costs savings allow us to deliver savings to typical customers across the year. It is also possible that you are not currently being supplied by the cheapest available retailer in your area.
The prices of our current products reflect summer pricing, and we expect these to rise a little over winter and then drop again next summer. Because of this seasonal fluctuation it is better to use our savings calculator to estimate your possible savings.
March 16th, 2009 at 8:21 pmJust a comment - I got a “your electricity bill is going up” from Mercury on the same day that I saw the Powershop ad on the TV. Signed up (or tried to) the same evening. You may want to target your advertising to other areas for the times when the major suppliers put the prices up - you’ll get more response from us customers.
March 17th, 2009 at 10:02 pmI have purchased quite a few different products, is there a convenient way to see what I have, how much of each I have used, and when they expire?
March 19th, 2009 at 7:14 pm@Felix:
Not yet, but it is on our ‘to-do’ list
March 19th, 2009 at 7:22 pmWill I be charged extra if pay in Credit card rather than direct debit?
March 22nd, 2009 at 12:15 am@Wei:
No, we recently removed all credit card convenience fees.
March 22nd, 2009 at 8:37 amCurrently have Meridian night & Day, But meter has only one usage register (Its a new remote read (R.F.)). How do I tell day units from night units and where is the split in pricing shown on your website. i.e I currently pay 25 c day and 10.93 c night rate.
March 23rd, 2009 at 4:30 pmWhere do I find my next review date ? It isn’t on the unit balance screen and I’ve had a look around the options under my account but not been able to see it.
March 24th, 2009 at 3:35 amI’d guess that it is simply the same day each month that I joined, but as it can be critical (units effectively expire on review date) it would be good to know for certain and see it displayed on unit balance (or at least somewhere in “my account”). Does the date vary when the month is one when a reading, rather than an estimate, is made (say if it would otherwise be on a Saturday or Sunday) and if so how ?
Thanks,
Michael
@Clive B:
If you signup with Powershop, you don’t need to worry about manually reading these remote read meters - we arrange with Arc Innovations (the meter owner) to get daily readings. Similarly, you don’t need to worry about proving reads during the signup process as we can get these quite quickly.
We do not have split pricing of our products. For simplicity we present individual customers with a personalised ‘blended’ price that reflects their actual usage. So, if you use more power night your prices will drop over time - this way you get the benefit of night time prices, without the complexity of having to know how much power to buy for day and night separately.
We have plans to develop more reports and charts that will illustrate your usage profile and give you further information about day/night costs.
March 24th, 2009 at 1:52 pm@Michael:
Typically your account will be reviewed after your meter has been read. Our meter reading contractors read meters on a 20 business day cycle (ie. 4 weekly, except when there are public holidays within that period). They also can’t always guarantee a precise day, because they need some flexibility to manage their read rounds.
The upshot of all of this is that your account review will occur on different days in the month, and we cannot predict with any certainty what day this will occur.
You are right that products expire based on the review date. We always provide that the products extend to the meter read after the ‘notional’ expiry date, so if you purchase to this date (ie. assuming your meter will be read the day after) you can be certain that the product will be valid until then.
March 24th, 2009 at 1:58 pmSo there is no way for me to find out when my current electricity units expire? I need to know if I can safely buy more power now.
March 29th, 2009 at 3:32 pm@Felix:
The power organiser does display the total credits you have purchased in each month, but it is not currently possible to tell which of the units you have purchased (if any) will expire. The order in which units will be applied is “earliest expiry date” will be used first (this minimises the risk of expiry).
March 29th, 2009 at 5:17 pmRecently signed up, and like Felix, I hope that expiry dates will be a priority. What is the point of an expiry date you can’t see? It’s a bit like having milk in the fridge and you know what order they’re going to go off, but not when
March 30th, 2009 at 9:11 am@Hamish:
I agree that it would be nice report to get built, but in reality once you have bought energy credits most parameters (eg. brand, product, price) become irrelevant from an energy balance point of view. What is important is the amount of units and their expiry date. It is therefore possible to aggregate all units with the same expiry date (unlike milk!). The power organiser does present this aggregated view.
March 30th, 2009 at 4:42 pmAri - you seem to be saying the power organiser already does this. I don’t see the power organiser aggregating all units with the same expiry date, I see it currently aggregating all units _regardless_ of their expiry date. As other comments have pointed out, the inability to see when different units expire is a weakness in the current power organiser (potentially significant, if it results in units expiring).
March 30th, 2009 at 5:23 pm@Andrew:
All everyday units are aggregated together. But future powerpacks will be aggregated by month, so for example if you buy a winter powerpack you will see a little bit of energy in each of the months May through September.
Also, when you are adding power to your cart we will warn you if we think you are buying too much (both everyday and powerpack products).
In any event, message understood - we will lift the priority on developing this report.
March 30th, 2009 at 7:28 pmGreat site this blog.powershop.co.nz and I am really pleased to see you have what I am actually looking for here and this this post is exactly what I am interested in. I shall be pleased to become a regular visitor
April 5th, 2009 at 1:20 amI also would be interested in a more information being displayed on the usage of night & day power. Also with the blended price it is not known what the night rate is actualy costing.
April 7th, 2009 at 9:30 am@Simon:
Our philosphy has been to simplify the information we present to customers. However, what we have learnt over the past 6 weeks is that there are plenty of people out there that actually want to see more detail.
We now have a number of developments planned that will enhance the level of information presented without creating more confusion.
Out first development in this vain has been the upgrade to our savings calculator.
We have also adding more detailed product pricing to our list of developments. I can’t promised a delivery date for this as yet, but keep an eye out for it.
April 7th, 2009 at 11:41 amAri,
Didn’t see your presentation @ Power Conference, Agree that smart meters is not panacea, but how are you going to decently monitor whether I used ‘my package’ using profiling (i.e. without smart meter), esp in cases like family gone on holiday during winter month (p=profile mayorly ‘off’). I’d be very interested in Powershop, but not without decent monitoring (inverse incentive: you’ll have a new client if you do offer this).
Cheers,
Bart
April 7th, 2009 at 5:37 pm@Bart:
Powershop will read meters monthly. These meter readings will be used to reconcile your usage against your purchased energy credits. If you don’t use power (say, if your lucky enough to get a winter holiday) then credis will not be used. You may also enter you own meter readings if you require more frequent updates to understand your usage. We would also recommend entering a meter reading before and after any holiday - I did this and was amazed (no shocked!) by the amount of power my house was consuming with no one there.
April 8th, 2009 at 1:29 pmSo far i am very very impressed with the savings ive achieved. Ive purchased electricity from April through to August and at prices way less and in some cases spectacularly so compared to what i was previously paying. The web site and the statistics are really working well for me.
April 11th, 2009 at 10:44 amWell done powershop im here for the long haul.
@Janos:
Thanks
April 11th, 2009 at 8:01 pmAri,
April 14th, 2009 at 10:49 amIs Powershop a wholely New Zealand owned company?
Thanks, Matt
Yes, Powershop (Powershop New Zealand Limited) is wholly owned by Meridian Energy - a NZ Government owned State Owned Enterprise (SOE).
April 14th, 2009 at 11:02 amDoes “Auckland Central and Manukau” include Waiheke Island. I also noted Empower is not on the list of providers when doing the savings calc. Is there a reason for this.
Cheers
April 14th, 2009 at 2:52 pmWhat happens if there is a power cut for some reason. Who do we phone and who takes the responsibility?
April 14th, 2009 at 8:00 pm@Gail:
Powershop operates a 24 hour 0800 faults service. In the event of a power-cut or other fault you call this and we will arrange for the fault to be fixed.
Generally faults will affect more than one customer (eg. a car crashing into a power pole, or a storm taking down lines) and multiple retailers may receive faults calls for the same event.
April 14th, 2009 at 9:20 pm@Chris:
“Auckland Central and Manukau” does include Waiheke Island.
The reason we have not included Empower is simply that we have not yet analysed their tariffs. This takes some time as we want to ensure that our information is correct. We have initially focussed on the most common retailers. Empower’s prices will be added to the Savings Calculator soon.
April 14th, 2009 at 9:24 pmFor anyone interested in an independent perspective of Powershop, check out the post by Mauricio Freitas on the Geekzone blog.
April 15th, 2009 at 4:16 pmIs it true that each customer will be charged a different price for the same product even if they are in the same area and on the same plan type ? What factors influence the price charged?
April 18th, 2009 at 1:01 am@Felix:
Yes, all customers have personalised pricing. The factors that influence prices are:
+ Area
April 18th, 2009 at 9:11 am+ Plan type (meter configuration)
+ Consumption levels (higher users will have lower prices, low users can select a ‘low user tariff’ and prices will be capped at the level of an 8,000kWh pa customer)
+ Consumption profile (eg. if you have day/night meters, the more you use at night the lower your prices will be)
@Kylie:
No sorry, we are not in Palmerston North yet, but we do intend to be within the next couple of months.
April 20th, 2009 at 6:38 pmI tried to sign up but i live in palmerston north. can i sign up or not yet?
April 20th, 2009 at 6:54 pmCan we still have a Day/Night plan with powershop? We are currently on 11c night time and 26c daytime with Meridian and half of our power consumption is at night so our average cost per unit is 18c. Are the powershop prices of eg. 19c for daytime or anytime? Our hotwater cylinder is currently on a timer since we are Day/Night plan, does this change if we move to powershop? I couldnt find the answers to this question on your website. Thanks
April 20th, 2009 at 7:54 pm@Geraldine:
When you sign up with Powershop we do not need to change anything at your property, so your hot water will remain on its current timer.
Powershop does take account of your day/night usage when we set your individual prices, however, we don’t require you to buy seperate day and night products, we blend the prices to give you a price that reflects your actual usage. So, if you use more at night your prices will be lower for all the power you buy.
April 20th, 2009 at 9:05 pmI watched Campbell live last night I understand there are no line rental/charges, what happens if there is a power outage or damage to a line say during a storm, would I have to pay your company for repairs or can I expect to get the same service from you that I recieve from my usual power company.
April 21st, 2009 at 7:01 am@Lilly:
This was slightly mis-reported on Campbell live. Powershop obviously does have a contract with your lines company, and this covers both normal supply, and response in the event of a fault. So you can expect the same service as with your existing company.
Where Powershop is different is that we have ‘no fixed daily charges’ (as opposed to no lines charges). Instead the unit price you pay for power includes the cost of lines. We think this is much simpler as it allows you to easily know what you are buying and allows you to make apples-for-apples comparisons across products we have for sale.
April 21st, 2009 at 7:19 amCan existing customers use the $50-for-$20 deal from the Warehouse?
April 21st, 2009 at 3:39 pmIf you decide to go back to your previous electricity suppler are there any penalties from either company?
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:13 pm@Nikki:
As far as I know other retailers do not charge for joining (unless your power has been disconnected for some reason and a reconnection is required).
Powershop does not charge any fees if you leave, but you will forfeit any unused power, which you can obviously avoid by not leaving until you have used all of the power you have bought. We will refund the cost of any unused power if a customer decides to leave within their first 60 days. There are also some other circumstances where we will refund unused power, say if you move house to an area we don’t supply.
April 24th, 2009 at 7:38 amHello.
I am interested in buying power in advance if it offered a reasonable saving from reduced administration costs. But dividing my recent bill by the units used gives 19.52 cents, below any price quoted on your site. Further more, a 3 month expiry date gives me little confidence that if savings were available they would continue later in the year.
Am I missing something?
Roger
April 24th, 2009 at 12:05 pmHi just a question does the unit prices include gst or exclude gst thanks
April 24th, 2009 at 2:44 pm@Roger:
Because Powershop pricing is different to traditional retailers (ie. no fixed daily charges, and seasonal pricing) the best way to make a comparison is to use our savings calculator. This will give you an estimate of your annual savings, and also your average unit price, and the equivalent for your existing retailer over the course of a full year.
April 24th, 2009 at 3:12 pm@Shawn:
All prices include GST.
April 24th, 2009 at 3:12 pmAlso, are the recharge cards available at all Warehouse stores?
April 24th, 2009 at 6:19 pm@Felix:
They should be available at all stores within the areas we supply (Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch and Dunedin). Although we have had a couple of reports of some stores not having them. Ask at the information desk, and let us know if you have no joy.
Note though that the ‘pay $20, get $50′ offer is for new signups, if you are an existing customer you can buy a signup pack, but you will only have $20 credited to your account when you activate the card. If it is just the recharge card you want email or call us and we can post one out.
April 24th, 2009 at 7:04 pmHi. In your demo it states you can buy from as many suppliers as you like, but to me the only available supplier is Meridian Energy - correct? (there is Power Kiwi - but who are they?). So essentially is signing up with Powershop signing up with Meridian? (you may be buying wholesale but its still from just one retail supplier). If there is to be true competition between power retailers and benefit for consumers, when will products from Contact, Mercury, etc. be available on Powershop?
April 25th, 2009 at 1:41 pmOk, just found website for Power Kiwi, which states “We are the first non-Meridian owned company to sell products on Powershop…At the moment we purchase our electricity at a wholesale rate through Powershop, and we have tiny margins. Once our sales are large enough we will purchase (or hedge) directly from Meridian and then the other power companies, which will mean that we can offer even lower prices to homes.”
Sound just like middle-men - they buy power from Meridian, like to rest of Powershops cusstumers, then sell it back through Powershop branded as eco-power, without doing anything. Correct?
April 25th, 2009 at 1:46 pmWhere do I find out more about the different plans?
April 26th, 2009 at 9:31 pm@Shaun:
Have you seen my blog post Where does my power come from? - this explains the role that suppliers in Powershop play. Powershop is completely independent from Meridian, and all the power we sell is purchased from the wholesale market.
We would certainly welcome Contact, Mercury etc. on board, and are having discussions with them. We remain confident that some of the existing retailers will embrace Powershop, but ultimately, it is their decision.
In the case of Powerkiwi’s ‘eco-power’ products, they are doing more than rebranding power. They are actually making commitments to customers to pay for trees to be planted, or purchase carbon offsets.
April 27th, 2009 at 10:33 am@Rihari:
We do not have plans as such, we have a range of different products for customers to purchase. You can view our current products on our Products page. You can also get an estimate of your annual savings using our savings calculator.
April 27th, 2009 at 10:43 amQuote from Ari:
Ari Sargent Says:
Yes, Powershop (Powershop New Zealand Limited) is wholly owned by Meridian Energy - a NZ Government owned State Owned Enterprise (SOE).
April 14th, 2009 at 11:02 am
Another Quote:
Ari Sargent Says:
@Shaun:
Have you seen my blog post Where does my power come from? - this explains the role that suppliers in Powershop play. Powershop is completely independent from Meridian, and all the power we sell is purchased from the wholesale market.
This is the same thing as Meridian Retail as you are just another retail branch of Meridian. You cannot be Wholly Owned by a company and yet be Completely Independant.
What I am interested to know is what kind of support you have. If I have an issue with my meter being faulty do I call you? And does this go to Meridians call center? You said previously that you are cheaper because you are web based, so I hope this does not mean that your service is not there.
I also cannot see any of your fees for things like additional reads, fault repairs, reconnection, temp disconnections etc. Is this shown on your site or do we need to request this?
April 29th, 2009 at 3:15 pm@Electroboy:
April 29th, 2009 at 3:19 pmhttp://www.powershop.co.nz/fees.html
Thanx Felix, Looking while at work so having to do it on the sly and didn’t see the fees the other day. Looking forward to see the answer to the support side of things.
April 29th, 2009 at 4:18 pmPowershop’s call centre has nothing to do with Meridian, and it’s who you would call if you joined Powershop as they would be your new retailer. I’ve had occasion to ring the call centre in the past few weeks (getting a new meter reconfigured) and it’s fast and friendly! No waiting in queues for ages - call answered within 5 rings and transferred direct to the person who could help me with my enquiry.
April 29th, 2009 at 6:00 pmHi with all the dumping of lake water the last few days (and the Cook Strait cable broke) wouldn’t South Island power be dirt cheap at the moment? Will us SI members get any cheap power any time?
April 29th, 2009 at 6:06 pmAnother question Ive always wondered about but never thought possible with traditional power companies, is it possible to be on a spot-rate plan ?. We are very flexible and dont have electric space heating so can moderate our use when prices are extremely high and relish when prices are dirt cheap. We’d be willing to be guinea pigs if this is ever planned :8)
April 29th, 2009 at 6:26 pm@Fibula:
April 29th, 2009 at 8:33 pmGo look at http://www.em6live.co.nz/
Electricity is currently 2 cents/unit in the SI, compared to >50 bucks in the NI!!!
(That’s in MWh, domestic consumers buy in KWh)
@Ari:
Does the Cook Strait cable breaking have something to do with that as well?
@Electroboy:
Your question about fees has been answered above (thanks Felix). Similarly, Andrew (thanks) has partially answered your question about support. Powershop has a customer service centre based in Masterton that is open 9am - 9pm, Mon - Fri for account enquiries, service requests etc. We also have a 7/24 faults service.
You are correct, we do have a low cost operation, but this does not come at the expense of reduced customer service. It comes from cutting bills out, lower call volumes etc.
April 29th, 2009 at 8:35 pm@Fibula:
We have already given you $50 free power because of excess stock and low wholesale prices, and you still want more
As mentioned elsewhere, we purchase the bulk of our power many months in advance (to protect against dry winters), this gives us some (but limited) ability to reflect these market conditions in prices. Our current winter packs are good buying!
It is Meridian’s lakes that are full to the brim, perhaps they will come to the party and offer some SI discounts?
We don’t have any current plans for direct spot based pricing, as this is obviously a two-edged sword. Unlike you, most customers don’t have the flexibility or sophistication to respond in periods of high pricing and so would be very grumpy and overlook about the benefits they had reaped during low price periods
April 29th, 2009 at 8:42 pmDo you go gas (i live in whitby-porirua
April 30th, 2009 at 11:59 am@Nat:
We do not currently supply gas. You can still switch to Powershop for electricity and remain with your current supplier for gas.
April 30th, 2009 at 12:04 pmWhen does the Freeze Winter Costs promo finish/stop being avaiable?
April 30th, 2009 at 9:52 pm@Warwick:
This product comes off the shelf at midnight tonight - get in quick!
April 30th, 2009 at 9:56 pmHi Ari,
Question:
I have a Direct Debit setup on my account, which is required by powershop to sign up. I have had issues with my bank recently and a few of my direct debits were rejected. My power company called me to discuss this and granted me my prompt payment discounts for the missed payments and helped me sort out my bank issues. My question is - with Direct Debit (or credit card) being mandatory, what happens if a customer misses payments, either accidentally or intentionally? Do you disconnect, how many chances do we get? I think I would likely set and forget with powershop but if I have the same issues I had recently, I don’t want to be cut off.
May 12th, 2009 at 1:58 pm@Electroboy:
All non-payments will be treated on a case by case basis, and take account of the circumstances. However, we will not disconnect you for the occasional bounced payment. You would need to be a chronic repeat offender, or have multiple outstanding payments before we would consider disconnection.
May 13th, 2009 at 8:32 pmHi,
Just like Geraldine, I live in Christchurch, and have a day night pricing product, where I can see exactly what my day and night prices are.
I too have over 50% on night rate, which
brings down the average cost per unit. I achieve this by transferring load to the off peak times whereever possible.
I know you have mentioned that you offer a blended product for custromers such as myself, but you dont actually tell us what the diference is, so that makes it very difficult to tell if there are pricing benefits.
When we are trying to use power/energy at off peak times, it is important to know how well we are achieving that.
I think that you are on the right track, and I applaud you guys for trying to bring something new to the market.
May 14th, 2009 at 10:56 amRe a comment to NATs question above, Does Powershop have any future intentions of negotiating into gas supply. Power and gas do go very much hand in hand for domestic purposes. I appreciate the fact that it is Powershops early days, but for those of us on gas hot water and cooking, it could make the domestic savings just that much more worth while
May 15th, 2009 at 10:01 am@Mike:
We don’t disagree with you in that having information about day/night usage and cost is important to customers. Our concern is to also keep the products/shop simple. We are hoping that when we develop some new reports you will have what you need.
May 15th, 2009 at 2:09 pm@Darcy:
Yes, we we are keen to introduce gas into Powershop. We are in discussions with potential partners to do this. Sorry, we can’t give you a definitive timetable for this at the moment.
May 15th, 2009 at 2:16 pmThere’s a recurrent dilemma in your blog: how much info should Powershop present to the customer.
Since you’re all about choice and control, how about giving customers a choice of how much information they see. Three levels sounds good to me, i.e.
1) KISS
2) I like to be in the driver’s seat (the present level)
3) Control freak
If you adopt this idea feel free to express your gratitude by crediting my account
May 15th, 2009 at 9:55 pm@Mandeno Moments:
Yep, you’ve hit the nail on the head. We are definitely keen to ’stream’ people through the information, rather than trying to be all things to all people. We are working on ideas to try and do this, so watch this space.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:01 pmDoes Powershop work with two meters? I have one controlled, one not. Would your pricing be different for each meter?
May 17th, 2009 at 10:17 am@Kim:
Sure does. Your prices will be a ‘blend’ of controlled and uncontrolled rates that reflect your metered usage. The more controlled [previously this post incorrectly said uncontrolled - Ed.] power you use the lower your prices will become. That way you get the benefit of the lower rate, but without the complication of having to know how much controlled and uncontrolled power you need to buy.
May 17th, 2009 at 11:16 amWondering how this would this work for me? I use a large amount of controlled power for house heating in winter, its off through summer. My uncontrolled is quite low (about 250kwh per month throughout the year). If your pricing is based on my uncontrolled meter does that mean my blended price would be quite high?
May 18th, 2009 at 12:31 pm@Ari
May 18th, 2009 at 3:13 pmShouldn’t uncontrolled power be more expensive because you can use it at any time?
@Felix:
Quite correct - I was tying myself in knots.
I will correct the response to Kim.
May 18th, 2009 at 3:16 pm@Kim:
We update your profile every time we read your meter (typically monthly), so as soon as you start using controlled power in the winter, your prices will start reflecting a higher proportion of controlled power. Similarly, at the end of winter as your controlled power reduces your prices will reflect a lower proportion of controlled power.
May 18th, 2009 at 3:28 pmSo, is there any advantage to having controlled or night rate power? Am i understanding correctly you are working out your prices based on combined total kwh’s used. Would my pricing be ay different if i was only using one uncontrolled meter?
May 18th, 2009 at 5:05 pm@Kim:
There is definitely a pricing advantage to having a controlled meter. We apply a weighted average of controlled and uncontrolled load and prices, and as controlled prices are lower, the more of your consumption that is controlled the lower your blended price will be. As mentioned earlier the idea is to give you the benefit of this lower controlled pricing, but not require you to purchase different products for each.
May 18th, 2009 at 5:14 pmGreat, thanks for all your answers. Its all starting to make sense. Difficult however to ascertain if you are cheaper as there’s no way with your calculators to take into account different meters?
May 18th, 2009 at 5:40 pm@Kim:
The savings calculator does provide comparisons for controlled tariffs with the major retailers, problem is they all use different names for these. They will generally include either ‘controlled’ or ‘economy’ in their name. If you have a recent bill use this to get the tariff name.
Or, you are welcome to call our contact centre on 0800 2000 40 - the crew are only too happy to help you understand
May 18th, 2009 at 7:36 pmre: Day/Night questions. Perhaps it would be helpful, while you work on developing a report that will help us see the details, if you could give us an example from the current month so that those with questions can get an indicative look at how the blended price is worked out.
For example, the Day/Night price in Wellington is 18.08 cents per unit based on the assumption of 60% Day, 40% Night. Can you give us the prices for Day and Night units that you are blending to come up with 18.08? That will help those who are wondering what the likely cost savings will be of switching a proportion of their electricity usage to Night time and help see if it’s worth it to do so.
May 19th, 2009 at 8:50 amCRASH, BOOM, KAPOW!
Good thinking Batman!
It might have been helpful if I had thought of that earlier.
Breakdown of Standard Power Top-up Day/Night pricing for Wellington (for 8,000 kWh pa customer with 60% daytime usage):
60% x 18.26 [Day price] + 40% x 12.79 [Night price] = 16.07 + 2.01 [GST] = 18.08c/kWh
May 19th, 2009 at 10:15 amGreat! Thanks, Ari! That’s exactly what I had in mind.
May 19th, 2009 at 10:58 amHi
i am JUST really so lost at this whole website and the idea of powershop.
After finding out the power companies are charging us 4.2 billion dollars more than they should it has got us really angry and upset.
from what i gathered of this business its just owned by the same companies that drain us of money from our wallets like insects that drain blood from their prey. correct me if i am wrong please??
why should we join knowing that a company like MERIDIAN owns this business? please reply
May 30th, 2009 at 3:42 pm@Akmal:
There are several reasons why it is a good idea for you to join Powershop, even if we are owned by Meridian.
Firstly, as a customer you get better information that allows you to control your power usage and cost. It is likely you will save money. You also get choice. Powershop provides the opportunity for companies who are not currently involved in electricity retailing to start selling power. Already we have introduced Powerkiwi, and we are in discussions with many others, including smaller generators.
Secondly, from an industry perspective. I am not here to defend the actions of the power industry, but there are some serious deficiencies in the analysis conducted by the Commerce Commission. However, the objective of the analysis is to compare what happened in the real world with a theoretical ‘perfectly competitive market’ - clearly this does not exist in practice. Powershop believes that existing retailers can get away with far too much, primarily because customers do not talk with their feet. Despite uncompetitive pricing, poor service, lack of innovation not enough customers have been switching. Our objective is to provide a marketplace where choosing your power supplier is simply a mouse-click away - this means that customers get much more ability (or power - pardon the pun) to express satisfaction or dis-satisfaction. Suppliers must EARN custom, rather than have it by default.
May 30th, 2009 at 5:29 pmJust looked in my powerbox to get a meter read and noticed something called a ripple controller with a flashing red light.
What is this for, and does it affect how I use powershop or the amount of power I use (or don’t use)? Thx in advance.
May 31st, 2009 at 8:08 pm@Simon:
Ripple controllers are used by your local lines company to manage load on the network. They are typically used to turn hot water on/off. If you have a ripple controller installed you should be on a cheaper ‘controlled tariff’ for any appliances connected to it.
Feel free to call us or hit the ‘feedback’ link (when you are logged in to Powershop) and we’ll confirm your setup for you.
May 31st, 2009 at 8:36 pmHi Ari,
Can you please shed some more light on the “low user tariff” set-up and how it does affect the prices I’m paying? I’ve selected “low user” myself, but - is it really a good idea?!
June 1st, 2009 at 9:01 am@Ulf:
We are required by law to offer a ‘low user tariff” for customers primary residence (ie. not holiday homes etc). Setting the “low user tariff” option means that your prices will never be higher than those of an 8,000 kWh pa. customer. If you happen to use more than 8,000 kWh pa. your prices will still reduce according to your consumption, so there is no disadvantage to setting it.
June 1st, 2009 at 9:43 am@Ari, thanks for answering the “low user” question, good to know!
Now, I’ve just had a terrible thought, after re-reading a number of posts here.
June 1st, 2009 at 10:05 amI’ve purchased the “June 800″ pack. My anniversary is the 20th/21st of the month. Does that mean any “June 800″ units not used by the 20yj/21st will expire thereafter? Please tell me I’m wrong….?!
@Ulf:
In practice you will have until your account is first reviewed in July - this is normally dome when your meter is read by us. It it is safest to assume that this could be the 1st, as you don’t know when your account will be reviewed.
However, we have just the thing for those ‘o-shit!’ moments. We have a 48 hour refund policy. If you go to the ‘My account’ page you will see a refund link - click this and your purchase will be cancelled and the purchase price credited to your account.
June 1st, 2009 at 10:15 am@Ari, so in this case it’d be safe to keep going, with my first review due in July (after we’ve most definitely used all 800 units throughout June), is that right!?
I like the idea of the “Oh Shit” moment cancellation button - thanks for pointing this out!!
June 1st, 2009 at 10:37 am@Ulf:
That’s correct. But no guarantee that your first review in July won’t be on the 1st, so you need to be confident that you will use it all in June, rather than relying on any ‘grace period’ in July.
June 1st, 2009 at 12:03 pm@Ari, no I wouldn’t rely on any grace at all. I was just a bit worried about not being able to utilise all 30 days in June to chew through my units but if we’ve got all month, we’ll use them up. All good as far as I’m concerned, thanks so much for your prompt responses.
June 1st, 2009 at 12:07 pmthanks for your reply Ari.
But you got to understand how we feel after reading the commerce comiision report. no such sane or decent human being would over charge their customers 4.2 billions dollars more than they should and Meridian was one of the companies that did and still is charging us more than they should.
therefore it would have been so good if this company was NOT owned by them and i and so many of my friends would have joined instantly. since its owned by them i am NOT so sure as i don’t think they will let any competition at all on here so basically getting more money out of our pockets in a different company name.
i so wish and we are waiting to see if a company comes out that is independent and so many of us will switch i wish powershop was the ONE but it seems its just a name under the main money hungry big power companies.
June 2nd, 2009 at 11:35 am@Akmal
June 2nd, 2009 at 2:58 pmWe don’t really have a choice. Unless you put a wind turbine on your roof, you have to choose one of the power companies. Even if the choices we have are an illusion, I would still prefer a power company that is informative and open about it.
@ FELIX the wana be administer of this site. well NOT all of us are getting paid to rip other off. so why should we go with power companies that overcharge their customers 4.2billion more. in some countries the companies would have been burned down by now, lucky that nz people are happy to let people rip them off.
how could a company justify 4.2 billion over charge to its customers? and shame on you Felix for defending them guess you are on their pay roll too i guess.
June 2nd, 2009 at 5:48 pm@Akmal:
I would be the first to agree that the electricity industry is far from perfect, but I genuinely believe that the $4.2 billion number is overstated. The analysis that arrived at this number relied on the benefit of hindsight, and ignored the need for the hydro operators to maintain security of supply in light of significant (weather) uncertainty.
Were wholesale prices over the period analysed higher than they could have been? Probably, but more likely to be a result of over conservative operation than deliberate price gouging, and probably not to the tune of $4.2b.
The real problem with the industry structure is that customers can not tell whether or not the price they are paying is ‘fair’ or not - the Commerce Commission analysis attempts tp answer that question from a theoretical perspective, but we’re hoping that Powershop can help answer that question in practice.
June 2nd, 2009 at 6:36 pmHi Ari
well i don’t see any other companies prices competing on this website?? all i see is power being sold by Meridian and hence they are making the profits and paying your wages right?
all we customers want is a fair competitive industry where companies compete with each other and bring the price down NOT up. a great example would be the phone companies as they are always competing and bringing the price down for us. so why NOT electricity companies do the same and why NOT this powershop is not letting other companies to sell their power at cheaper price?
June 2nd, 2009 at 8:39 pm@Akmal:
Firstly, we do have an independent seller - Powerkiwi - who are not connected with Meridian or Powershop in any way.
Secondly, we are more than happy to sell the other existing power companies electricity through Powershop and have been in discussion with them for some time.
Even if other power companies do not sell through Powershop we are offering lower prices to most customers in the areas we operate. This has two effects, prices have gone DOWN, and it applies competitive pressure to exisitng retailers.
We agree that customers want a fair and competitive industry, and despite your suspicions arising from our ownership, I can assure you Powershop wants that too.
I have said on a number of occasions that Meridian ownership is a two-edged sword for us, but it is was it is, and we are operating independently and we are striving to deliver customers a smarter way to buy power and a better deal.
June 2nd, 2009 at 8:49 pm@Akmal:
You may find this critique of the Commerce Commission report an interesting counter view. It was prepared by Energy Link - an independent energy market analyst.
June 2nd, 2009 at 9:20 pmHi Ari
thanks for your prompt replies. well its not just me there are thousands of us that just don’t trust power companies that have been over charging us so much and have so little competition between them.
it just don;t make sense to us that why would Meridian who helped to over charge all their customers in excess of 4 billion dollars would buy this company and sell electricity at cheaper price?? it just don’t make sense.
i do feel like this company would have done really well without the ownership of a big money hungry power companies and be really independent and give customers the cheaper and most transparent power supply which unfortunately new zealenders lack.
its a shame that people have not protested about all the miss justice by power companies as of yet but they are starting to realize and it won’t be long before a major protest to all these money hungry companies that strive to rip people off.
As i said before in most countries the power companies and their buisness would have been shut down by now and it sucks that people in NZ has not done it so.
i do feel quite strong about this as i feel for every NZ that has difficulty paying their bills week by week basis and i really have so much sympathy for them and i wish the OWNER of this website try to have 1% of that sympathy towards their customer and NOT over charge them 4 billion dollars again.
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:30 pmOH and it be good to see more than just ONE independent seller, since there are so many of them it feels like meridian has NOT and will NOT let cheaper electricity be sold on here as it will affect their market am i right??
June 3rd, 2009 at 12:31 pm@Akmal:
I understand your concerns, however, I feel your suspicions about Meridian’s motives for owning Powershop are unjustified.
We (Powershop) are a separate legal entity and have complete autonomy over whose electricity we sell. Meridian has not sought to restrict this. As I have said we are in discussions with other generators to sell through Powershop and would love to have them and other new suppliers on board. However, as our way of selling electricity is completely different these companies are taking time to assess the benefits of coming on board, and understanding what products they would sell. We remain confident that one or more will sell through Powershop in due course.
Meridian invested in Powershop as part of a strategy to future-proof its retail business. It is inevitable that selling electricity online will happen, in much the same way as the banking, music, book, travel etc etc industries have moved online. Meridian’s approach is to embrace this inevitable change.
It is clear you have very strong views on Meridian, and the industry generally. I am not going to try and change these views. But I would like to point out that Powershop is one of very few companies actually trying to improve the situation for customers, and reiterate that we are doing so independently of our owners. For instance, who is your current power company? And how have they responded to your concerns about the industry?
June 3rd, 2009 at 2:14 pm@Akmal
I have been reading your comments regarding your conspiracy theory of the electricity industry (or the relation of Powershop and Meridian). I myself had followed the news up to a stage that I’m lost with the technicality of the issue.
I don’t think it’s fair just to pick up what you understand: e.g. $4.3million overcharged and keep using the figure to attack the power companies. Give them a chance, let the players explain, and let the government / watchdogs follow up.
You have expressed your concerns several times on this website and i don’t think it is going anywhere. Perhaps if it really concerns you, you should present the issue to the right avenues? e.g. the ombudsman?
I myself is switching to Powershop shortly as I believe it does provide competitive pricing. Besides, the idea of controlling and monitoring power that I spent online is a great idea to me. Like myself, you have the choice, either you like it or not. Make your decision and move on.
June 3rd, 2009 at 4:01 pmHi there, just want to clarify the prices? are the quoted price/unit GST inclusive?
June 4th, 2009 at 7:52 pm@Grace:
Yes, all prices are GST inclusive.
June 4th, 2009 at 7:57 pm@ WAYN
let the person who runs this website answer the question unless if you are in one of big money hungry power companies pay roll. by sounds of it you are.
June 5th, 2009 at 7:03 pm@ ARI
right now i am with CONTACT energy but yah i am NOT happy at all about them also and have been in contact with them through the local MPs so see why they ripping people off. its not Meridan only its every single company that does that it seems like there is a bond agreement between them to keep their prices at set rate and together rape the customers.
I would have been really happy to join and in reality hundred of thousands would have joined if powershop was Independent and not owned by any of the major companies. its great marketing for Meridian for NOT all Kiwis are blind and won’t be fooled by just a name change.
i would seriously consider this company after i see some serious competition amongst all different companies on here which it seems like there is NONE oh except 1 hahha its just a JOKE.
June 5th, 2009 at 7:07 pm@Akmal:
I appreciate your concerns and anger about the industry, and good on you for giving a damn and doing something about it. However, I fail to understand your logic with respect to Powershop. Your main beef seems to be that people are paying too much to ‘rip off power companies’, yet you are unwilling to signup with a power company (Powershop) that (a) is prepared to engage with you over your concerns and may be the only company trying to do anything about them, and (b) is likely to save you money.
We are much more than a cunning marketing ploy for Meridian - we have spent over two years, working independently of Meridian building Powershop. There is actually a lot of substance and commitment behind what we’re doing.
Why don’t you give us the benefit of the doubt and sign up?
June 5th, 2009 at 9:26 pm@ Ari
O.K i would give your so called independent company a trail. do you have any offers for new customers right now like a free bonus or something??
June 6th, 2009 at 6:52 pm@Akmal:
sign up under our Wellington House & Home Show promotion before 14 June and get $50 free power.
June 6th, 2009 at 9:18 pmI live in Dunedin though and would the prices be the same for all of NZ?
we only have One meter outside do we need more for this? are there any hidden cost like most companies have??
June 7th, 2009 at 11:53 am@Akmal:
All areas have different prices. Dunedin has some of the lower prices. You can see our current prices on our View the shop page.
You don’t need a new meter or anything else. There are no hidden charges, your unit prices cover the total cost of your power. We do have fees for special service requests - most customers won’t need these services, but a schedule of these services and their associated costs are shown on our Fee page. Other than that there are no costs. Note reconnection fees are only required if your power has been disconnected. There is no cost if you are simply changing supplier.
June 7th, 2009 at 8:14 pmAri… I just switched to a Day/Night plan 6 weeks or so ago, and I was wondering if you can tell me how the prices are updated after an account review to reflect the changing proportions of Day and Night usage. Is it supposed to be automatically updated after the next account review?
I am asking because I have just had my first account review after the meter reconfiguration has taken effect, but despite a different usage to the initial assumptions, my unit prices were unchanged after the review. So I guess I’m wondering if you guys work this out manually each time, or if the system is programmed to make the price changes automatically and just somehow this time my account missed out on that?
June 8th, 2009 at 8:25 amHi Ari,
I am currently signed up with Powershop and first of all I think it fantastic, living in a flat it is perfect for being able to see if we are using too much power and what not.
I am thinking of changing to the day/night plan and subsequently having my meter changed. I have been reading the previous posts and you say that it is a blended price and I was just wondering what the makeup of the price that is given on your ‘Pricing’ section of the homepage under Day/Night is? I live in Wellington and it says that standard power is 17.44c…is that a 50% daytime 50% nightime blend? Also what timeframe does night apply? is it 11pm to 7am?
Cheers,
Ben
June 8th, 2009 at 8:33 pm@Ben:
Thanks for your feedback, glad you’re enjoying Powershop.
We start you off as 60% Day/40% night (this is the assumption incorporated into the current 17.44c). We update the 60/40 assumption as we get actual meter reads from you, so if you are using more than 40% at night your prices will reduce further.
The definition of ‘night’ is dictated by the lines company (Wellington Lines in your case). I have searched their website but can’t see any times specified, so I’ll have to get back to you on this.
June 8th, 2009 at 9:23 pm@Andrew:
This is an automated process and I understand Jim has contacted you directly about your situation.
June 8th, 2009 at 9:24 pmHi Ari,
Silly question, but does 1 Powershop ‘unit’ = 1 kWh? If so, why not just say kilowatt hour?
c/unit looks like a rude word at first glance…. or maybe it’s just me!?
June 9th, 2009 at 10:12 pm@Simon:
Yes, 1 unit = 1 kWh. We chose units because it seemed more user friendly than kWh.
The similarity of c/unit to a rude word has been commented on before, and has in fact been used as the theme of one of our more adventurous t-shirts.
June 9th, 2009 at 10:21 pmHi Ari, I was reading the Terms and Conditions and wasn’t sure about something.
June 14th, 2009 at 5:41 pm12.4b: Does that mean Powershop would sometimes run out of electricity and there wouldn’t be enough for all your customers?
@Felix:
It is very unlikely that we would be unable to secure wholesale supply, this provision is really there for situations when the wholesale market itself has insufficient supply. In this situation, no retailer would be able to guarantee supply as the lines companies would be required to operate under instruction from the Electricity Commission and/or Transpower.
June 14th, 2009 at 6:10 pmOK, that’s more reassuring.
June 14th, 2009 at 8:30 pmIs there a mobile version of the website? (or can you build one!) I attempted to log in and update my meter details from a Windows Mobile phone and had a dreadful experience, in fact I wasn’t even able to enter a reading. Instead of writing down the reading on the way in to the house it would be easier if I could update straight from my phone
June 15th, 2009 at 6:34 pm@Regan:
I know exactly what you mean. There is not currently a mobile version, but it is definitely on the ‘to-do’ list
June 15th, 2009 at 6:45 pmWhen will you be rolling out your service in Rotorua?
June 25th, 2009 at 11:39 amAlso I have three meters, Anytime, Controlled and Night Only. How will Powershop work with this?
June 25th, 2009 at 12:43 pmHi Ari,
I was looking at the the “Flower Power Catch-Up Pack” which says “…you can quickly catch up on power you have used”. which implies that if you are behind in your power purchases and you can use all the power in the pack by the use-by date this may be for you. Interestingly, if you go to the “My Products” then “Products Purchased” page there is an “Available From” column that appears to have the same date as the purchase date thereby invalidating the sentence that says you can quickly catch up on power used. Have I misinterpreted something or is this column not actually used?
Also, how do you access the Blog / FAQs after you have logged on? The menu at the very top changes to display your name, a feedback link, and a logout button and makes the FAQs and Blog items disappear?
June 25th, 2009 at 2:18 pm@ John:
We have no firm timeframe for entering Rotorua at this point. If you haven’t already, join our mailing list and we’ll let you know when we get there.
And three meters are no problem at all. We will base your prices on the amount of consumption through each meter.
June 25th, 2009 at 8:43 pm@ Craig:
The catch-up packs can be redeemed for consumption since your last ‘account review’ prior to the ‘Available From’ date, so they can indeed be used to catch up. The terminology is a little confusing, but is technically correct because (I am going to get semantic here!) the energy credits are ‘valid for’ consumption between the last account review prior to, and the first account review after the nominal date range specified for products.
Sorry if this all sounds like gobbledy-gook. The short answer is that the catch-up packs can be used to catch up, since your last account review (even if this is prior to the Available from date).
At present the only way to get to the blog/FAQs from the logged-in state is to logout or go to powershop.co.nz - we are working on developing more specific FAQs for customers (as opposed to general public) and fixing the navigation at the same time. In the interim I would suggest either logging in in a separate browser tab (use ctrl-click or cmd-click on a mac, when you click the login button) or create bookmarks http://powershop.co.nz and https://secure.powershop.co.nz to flick between the two.
June 25th, 2009 at 8:56 pmThat sounds like its going to take forever to come to Rotorua…. or that you havent actually made the decision as of yet whether you want to enter the Rotorua market or not?
June 26th, 2009 at 11:57 am@John:
We are rolling out in new areas one at a time at the moment. We need to negotiate contracts with local lines companies, and acquire appropriate energy contracts before we go into new areas. To some extent the timing is beyond our control. For this reason we are not committing to dates for new areas. Sorry we can’t be more helpful.
June 26th, 2009 at 7:09 pmFor general information:- I have computerised power usage analysed by every which way possible going back at least 7 years, in the three months prior to joining Powershop I paid >= 25cents per unit gross, since changing to Powershop the cost/unit has dropped to =< 20 cents gross I consider this a good start to our relationship, the major intangible though is the absolutely great service and comunication with them as against the opposite with the previous companies.
June 30th, 2009 at 10:53 am@Robert:
Thanks for the feedback, pleased you are enjoying your relationship with us.
June 30th, 2009 at 11:15 amI lack the information needed to decide whether buying spring and summer packs now
July 1st, 2009 at 2:00 pmis wise. Can you point me to any such information ? Eg would historical data showing wholesale summer and winter prices give us a clue ?
Hi Ari,
I am currently on all-inclusive plan in Auckland with you. Is there any easy way I can switch to a day/night plan, or I will have to change my power meter?
July 2nd, 2009 at 9:15 am@Steven:
Yes, unfortunately it does require a meter change to change to a day/night plan.
July 2nd, 2009 at 9:29 amHi Ari
sorry for the late reply or a delay in being part of your company as you can tell i am very hesitant in power companies and power distributors. i have been away recently so have not yet changed over to powershop but i am willing to give it a go. but still have a few questions to be cleared.
what if the price for power is cheap one week and increases the next? with normal companies at least there is assurance they won’t increase it weekly :)!
also i find allot of the emails and this site to be confusing and not easily understandable so how long would i be spending online buying and checking my account?
and finally i am with contact energy right now and as with every other company i dislike and disprove what they have done and doing to over charge their customers so the plan i am with them is LOW USER day/night so would i need new meter or pay any extra to join powershop?
July 4th, 2009 at 4:15 am@Akmal:
Welcome back.
You are right, our pricing is variable and will change throughout the year. However, we stand by our savings calculator, so across the year you should still save money.
We are aware that a lot of people are still confused about Powershop and how it works, so we are working on a complete refresh of the website to simplify things. You can spend as little or as much time as you like buying power. We have started describing the way in which customers use Powershop in three ways:
1. Set and save: just sign up, set up your account and do nothing else. This means you don’t need to buy power at all, we will top up your account automatically and keep you informed via email.
2. Shop for bargains: if you log in a little more frequently, say once a week, you can check out any ’specials’. This is a bit like taking coupons to the supermarket to buy products on special. If you do this you can save even more money.
3. Monitor and manage: if you become even more involved you can keep a close eye on your consumption (by entering a weekly meter reading) and buy power pack products to help you manage your usage and your cashflow.
As a customer you choose how much you get involved, or not. And you can always become more involved, say in winter, and less involved in summer to match how much you are spending on power and how much benefit you get by being more involved - it’s entirely up to you.
You do not need to change your meter or pay anything extra to join Powershop. Your prices will reflect your day/night usage and you can select our low user tariff in your settings.
Hope this all makes sense.
July 4th, 2009 at 8:54 amHi. It looks like i have purchased too much power as i still have green on the planner reaching back to June the 13th. My meter read date is at least a week away. To use up my power should i now stop using the logburner and fire up my electric heating? Maybe you could have a sell-back option?
July 4th, 2009 at 6:13 pmCheers
@Fibula:
I have had a quick look at your account, and it doesn’t look like you have any credits that look like they will expire. The reason you are green back to 13 June is because that is when we last reviewed your account, so you can leave that log burner stoked up for now.
We have considered a number of options for ’sell-back’ including private sale on trade me, but this is on hold for the moment at least.
July 4th, 2009 at 6:23 pmHi
July 4th, 2009 at 7:06 pmI’ve been looking at the blogs regarding pricing and review dates.
I get that the price offered at any point to an individual customer is relateded to their total power consumption and profile (weighting between use of night and day units) and that the profile is reviewed when the account is reviewed after the 20 business day meter read.
When the profile review is done is that based on the previous period use of day and night units (from the last account review to the current one been undertaken) and then used for the period going forward until the next account review; or is it on another basis?
In terms of the ‘base’ prices for each offering for night and day units before adjusting for power usage and the profiling, are these smoothed for the year (as per the common retail supply model) or do they tend to vary throughout the year by season, month or daily according to the purchases and hedges Powershop puts in place with its suppliers?
If they are not smoothed during the year how can I as a customer get a feel for the variation in pricing over the year and some sense of future pricing profile by which to judge whether the advance purchase packages offer me the best value?
Steve
@Steve:
In terms of the profiling of Day/Night we have been applying this based on most recent meter readings, but we are currently implementing a change to make this more predictive. What we have found is that a number of customers Night usage increases significantly over winter (probably because of night store heaters). Because winter is the time when customers use more power we want to try and predict the shift to more night load so that prices can be kept lower.
Base pricing is variable throughout the year - with prices tending to rise through winter and drop through summer. There are a number of factors that will influence this profiling, including wholesale contract prices and meeting our customer savings commitment. Unfortunately there is no good source of information that you can use to assess whether or not power pack pricing is good, bad or otherwise. What the pricing of power packs does reflect though is our current view on pricing for that period, a bit like fixed interest rates offered by banks. The real value of power packs is that they provide price certainty and allow you to manage your cashflow (particualrly if you buy winter power packs during summer).
July 4th, 2009 at 8:43 pmThanks for the helpful response Ari. Could you give a more definitive description of how the profiling is carried out please? That is the factors and periods used following an account review. It would be useful to understand the curent more historic method and, if it is now finalised, the more predictive method you are moving to. For the more mathematically minded and logic bound of us; formulas would be good.
July 5th, 2009 at 1:10 pmOh and is the meter reading on a 20 business day cycle or on the 20th business day of each month?
@Steve:
Happy to do that, but I will ask our ops people to make sure it is absolutely correct. I will be the detail in a few days time.
July 5th, 2009 at 2:00 pmHi Ari
well it seems like you have encouraged me to join? is there any way that you could personally help me join? and also do i still get a bonus power pack for joining as you said previuolsy?
i assure you there will be lots of joining once i test this company out
July 5th, 2009 at 5:25 pm@Akmal:
Sure, the promo link is still active. Call one of the crew on 0800 2000 40 and they’ll be happy to help you out - it is pretty straightforward.
July 5th, 2009 at 8:55 pmWell i use +/- 15000 kw pa annum . Based on this your “savings” calculator estimates i will save around $ 110 p.a Wow big deal, and on top of it I have the added hassle of monitoring it , logging in (optional i know) ..Come on , find us some decent saving will you. We are getting ripped off , the cost of electricity is a joke here.. Some one needs to stand up ad provide some real value
July 10th, 2009 at 7:03 pm@Mitch:
We’re doing what we can to deliver savings to customers. In some cases these are modest, but they are savings none the less. Base savings (i.e. $110 in your case) don’t require any effort on your part. If you do put in more effort (as little as 5 minutes a week) we are confident you will save more and be much more aware of your consumption. Ultimately, savings will be delivered by a combination of good prices and wiser use of energy.
July 10th, 2009 at 8:43 pm@Peter:
(sorry for the tardy response to your question, I somehow missed your post)
Unfortunately there is not really a good source of information to help you.
There is some information on the wholesale market on Comit Free and Energy Hedge. Energy link also produce a weekly market review. But to be honest all of this information is pretty technical.
Over time we will produce a history of our prices that will help as a guide, but we obviously don’t have enough historic data yet.
July 10th, 2009 at 8:53 pmSteve,
July 11th, 2009 at 8:45 amIt’s my understanding and (limited just over 3 month) experience so far that readings are nominally every 20 business days - so the reading date slowly drifts back (toward start of month).
As it sounds like you are interested in the “intricacies” of planning purchases under PowerShop I offer the extra thoughts:
It (reading date variation) is mainly relevant if you are trying hard to maximise your savings e.g. by buying early (prices rising or special deal) with intent to use units between end of month (in which the units expire) and the next reading date.
To a lesser extent it’s relevant if buying in advance during reducing prices e.g. buy Spring power (cheaper and nominally starts September) with intent to cover units used between August reading and 1st September. By the way one of the good bits of design of the refund system is that it allows individual months to be refunded from a winter/spring/summer purchase and so you don’t have to have uniform use during such 3-4 month periods to get the advantage of the better rate.
Hope you find that possibly useful and are joining Powershop.
Michael
A low power profile user (around 6kwh/day), so far saving >30% cost and that’s without including give aways)
@MichaelT
July 12th, 2009 at 3:17 pmHow do you do individual month refunds from a winter/spring/summer purchase?
@MichaelT:
Thanks for your feedback. Sounds like you’ve discovered a couple of ways to use the system to your advantage - we commend you for that. We absolutely want engaged customers.
A couple of points. We are careful to explain to customers that their account can be reconciled on any day of the month, and not to rely on any ‘grace period’ either side of the validity period. But if you want to explore the boundaries to your advantage, go for it. The partial refund of power packs is not intended (ie. it is a bug). So feel free to exploit this while you can, but don’t be surprised if you can’t do this at some stage in the future.
(@Felix: when you click refund beside a multi-month powerpack on the ‘My account’ page, you can select which months you want to refund, but as noted above, this was unintended and may disappear in the future).
July 12th, 2009 at 3:27 pmArgh, should’ve discovered that while the freeze winter cost was on sale.
July 12th, 2009 at 4:42 pmMy description of meter reading was entered as the second part of Steve’s July 5th question might have been overlooked, while checking up on his first. My description was based on my earlier q/a in this thread March 24th at 3:35 am/March 24th at 1:58 pm and Truthseeker Powershop Blog entry 29/4/09 21:07 . I did introduce the description of the potential effect with “if you are trying hard to maximise your savings”. Certainly the size of saving those methods may achieve would be far more than offset if one ended up with expired units, so yes treating the listed expiry dates as if actual dates is the safest way to work and avoid such a (potentially large) pitfall.
There is an option to get advance warning of meter readings (account settings;account preferences;alerts).
It will be disappointing if ,an attempt to advise and help another (potential?) customer,results in the useful facility of refunding individual months from a multi month package being removed. Perhaps I should just keep quiet (and rely on the “bug” remaining), but then I might have missed out on one of the pioneer prizes.
I did previously praise the refund system and noted the effect of that facility in the pioneer thread “sign-up-thread-i-want-to-be-a-powershop-pioneer” entry 26. May 2009, 21:14. There was no feedback on that.
I guess I’ll periodically check monthly refunds still work, so if they don’t I get maximum time to revise my strategy September power. Although I’ve already made substantial savings compared with staying with my previous provider, I now try to understand the system and optimise use of it, more as a challenge than for $s - as a low power user with a month’s units currently costing me less than $40 those effects are practically insignificant.
Normal users can get the main gains with comparatively little effort.
Thanks,
July 12th, 2009 at 5:07 pmMichael
@MichaelT:
Sorry I hadn’t picked up on this issue in earlier posts, and I did not mean to come across as negative, I certainly didn’t intend to be. We are actually pleased that people are pushing the boundaries, and adopting smart buying strategies. Hell, some people are even starting to enjoy buying power!
And you can rest assured, our priority and focus is definitely on finding ways to help all of our customers, rather than preventing a handful of people finding smart ways of buying their power. We won’t be coming down on anomalies within the system like a ton of bricks, but we do obviously need to act if these things become more widespread. We would rather be upfront and warn people about that now.
Our preference is also to understand why customers are behaving in a particular way to help us deliver better products and services.
So please do continue to push the boundaries and keep us on our toes.
July 12th, 2009 at 7:40 pmI opened up your calculator but i dont know which tarrif i should put in when i sign up.
July 13th, 2009 at 6:56 pmWe pay about $150 /month now and there is only two of us at home all the time. we have solar water heating but that does do much in the winter we have had, but in the summer its fantastic.
Which tarif should we go on.
Cheers TONZ
@Tony:
Your tariff is determined by the meter configuration at your house. While it is possible to change tariff’s, this will require installing a new meter.
Your current tariff will be shown in the bill from your present supplier. Check for terms like Day/Night and Controlled/Uncontrolled that match the options on our calculator. If you can’t see a match feel free to call our contact centre on 0800 2000 40 (9am - 9pm, weekdays) and they’ll help you out.
July 13th, 2009 at 7:19 pmHi Ari
i calulated my savings using your calculator and gues what wait for it ohhhh i am going to save a MEGA $45 per year using your company which is basicly another name for Meridian WOW c’mon people GET REAL.
thats NOT a real saving its NOT worth the time and effort fo constanlty checkiing and buying and using power whithing a expire date. I really think we need a REAL COMPANY that makes us save money and in favour of people of NZ not just another name for a big company to rip us off. I woud love to see a new independent power company more like the new phone company 2 degree to come and break the back of all you big companies preying on us kiwis.
July 14th, 2009 at 1:55 am@Mike:
One of the biggest issues for NZers is that they don’t know how much they are paying for power - like telephone companies, power companies have tariffs that are difficult to understand and compare. You are one of the lucky ones, it sounds like your current power company has pretty competitive pricing. I wouldn’t be surprised if other people in your area could save hundreds of dollars compared to their current provider.
What Powershop offers is a completely new way of buying power that allows people to understand exactly how much they are paying and how much they are using, But it is also possible to operate Powershop in exactly the same way that you do with your current power company. That way you pay for your power a month in arrears and don’t have any risk that energy credits will expiry and you don’t need to lift a finger.
We are not just Meridian under another name. Yes, we are owned by them, but we are completely operationally independent - we buy and sell our own energy, set our own pricing and operating strategies. Ultimately, we are also aiming to have other power companies (Meridian’s competitors) selling through Powershop.
I agree $45 are modest savings, but at least they are savings, and Powershop offers many other benefits.
July 14th, 2009 at 7:47 amThanks for you reply. I’m now confident I will get a better deal from Powershop
July 14th, 2009 at 2:48 pmCheers TC
Hi Ari
ok lets say i am going to be saving a huge savings of 45$ per year right? well right now the lakes are quite high therefore i am saving 45$ but can you guarantee that i will be saving that much when the lakes are low? at least with some companies the rates are set so they won’t change.
yeah its right that i am saving 45$ now but if you CAN guarentee that i will be saving that much every year then we will join? can you do that??
what if the wholesale price changes? won’t you charge us extra? and why do you have a expiry date? wouldn’t be good if customers buy a whole lots of power when its cheap at low rate?
i see allot of inconsistency on here i am not impressed at all that this company is owned by Meridian.
July 15th, 2009 at 3:21 pm@Mike:
We stand by our savings calculator results, irrespective of what happens to wholesale prices. The way we manage the risk of wholesale price fluctuation is to buy wholesale electricity contracts 6-12m in advance. This means that our costs are locked in and won’t vary if wholesale prices rise. The flip side of course is that our costs won’t reduce if wholesale prices drop.
The reason we have expiry dates on all products is to allow suppliers (including ourselves) to set the price within defined risk boundaries. If we did not have any expiry date at all, we would have to assume that large amounts of energy would be consumed during high price periods and factor that risk into the price. We have set the expiry date to be 2-3m out for most products to minimise the risk that these will expire. We also warn customers if we think they might be buying too much. It is not in our interests to have grumpy customers with expired energy, we just want to ensure energy products are priced sharply without risk margins built in.
I have said on many occasions that Meridian ownership is a two-edged sword for us. On the one hand, it gives customers confidence that we have solid backing from an investor who understands the industry, on the other hand there is suspicion about our independence and Meridian’s motivation. All I can do is reassure you that while we are owned by Meridian, we are not Meridian and we are genuinely striving to deliver value and better service to our customers. We are not afraid of ruffling a few feathers either, whether they be Meridian’s feathers or anyone elses.
July 15th, 2009 at 3:35 pmHi Ari,
Something a bit strange has happened in our house the last couple of days - usage has suddenly spiked from the usual 20 or so units per day to 31.5, for no apparent reason (haven’t been using the heaters and we have a gas oven).
This morning the hot water ran out after only one shower. We have mains hot water and there’s no sign of leakage and no leaky pipe blowing hot water out the roof.
We have a ripple controller for the hot water - is it possible this could malfunction and turn hot water off and on at wrong times?
July 17th, 2009 at 8:36 am@Simon:
It does seem a little weird. I’ll get one of our team to look into it and get back to you.
July 17th, 2009 at 9:06 am@ ARI
can you guarentee that this will be the cheapest power in the market? if NOT then why should we bother join up.
July 18th, 2009 at 12:06 pm@Mike:
Unfortunately we cannot give you a water tight guarantee - mainly, because we cannot do a like-for-like comparison between our pricing and other retailers tariffs. The level of savings you make will depend on how much and when you use your power.
What we can say is that MOST customers will save money without lifting a finger, and you are even more likely to save if you take advantage of special offers and/or use the information available to engage more with your consumption.
We offer a smarter way to buy power, with a high likelihood you can save money. We think we offer many benefits, but it is really up to you to assess whether the overall package is right for you.
July 18th, 2009 at 12:52 pmThanks Ari - just an update on my question above. Spike was caused by me submitting an incorrect meter reading (Powershop tip: kids, don’t trust your phone as a reliable light source on a dark and windy winter’s night). Lack of hot water was a fault resolved by my lines company.
July 18th, 2009 at 2:18 pmAri
thanks for your prompt replies i really think you are either on a high pay roll or really comited for your cause, which i doubt it more likely on a high pay roll.
OK now you say that this is a shop and people buy power from other suppliers? All i can see is there is only one supplier and yes i guessed it right who else but the owner of this company Meridian!!
isn;t that a surprise? if this was really for real then like a real shop you let other tens of electricity suppliers to sell their power on this site NOT by prices set by your bosses but by their prices. someone told me that you guys are preventing them from entering and selling on here? so can you answer why is it that no major rival electricity supplier to Meridian is not offering their power on here?
i and thousands like are sick of big power companies like Meridian stealing our money, so i don;t want it to happen here just under a different name.
July 20th, 2009 at 7:51 am@Mike:
I am very much committed to the cause. Almost 3 years ago I resigned from my position as a Meridian executive to set up Powershop. I have been around the industry long enough to know ‘there must be a better way to serve customers’. Powershop is a very exciting opportunity for me both professionally and personally.
Powershop must buy our energy off the wholesale market, at whatever price that market dishes up - there is no preferential treatment for us. While there are many downsides to having Meridian as an owner, I don’t think Powershop would ever have got off the ground without the backing of one of the incumbent gentailers who understand the risks invloved.
We actually have three distinct suppliers in Powershop - our ‘Standard Power’, Meridian and Power Kiwi. Each has complete control over what products they supply and how they are priced. Across these three brands we also have many products designed to suit individual customers needs.
To my knowledge we have never ‘prevented’ anyone from supplying through Powershop. We do however have certain criteria that must be met. We need to be convinced that any new brands/products will have sufficent appeal to customers to warrant any development required (we are very lean and need to heavily prioiritise) and we need credit support in place (given the volatility in energy purchase price). As I have said many times, our door is open to other major rivals - prehaps you should be asking them why they are not willing or aren’t yet participating in Powershop?
With due respect we are much more than Meridian under a different name. There is nearly 3 years of hard graft and sweat, blood and tears behind Powershop. We are very much here to bring value to customers and transparency to the marketplace.
I understand your suspicions of other retailers and the industry, but don’t we desereve a little (even just a smidgen) of ‘benefit of the doubt’? I don’t see anyone else trying to rock the boat.
July 20th, 2009 at 9:40 amHi Ari,
With reference to your reply to Mike above - Just to clarify:
Are you saying “Standard Power” is based on Powershops own internal wholesale trading whereby you buy electricity off the wholesale market at the prevailing wholesale spot/forward price from ANY generator (not just Meridian) and then package and sell it as “Standard Power”? i.e. you purchase electricity off the wholesale market just like any other independent retailer (who didnt have their own generation) would?
Or do you have a deal with Meridian whereby they guarantee you will have as much electricity as you need to provide via ‘Standard Power’ - especially since you dont have your own generation capability.
Cheers,
John
July 20th, 2009 at 10:48 am@John:
Correct - we operate own own trading book, and buy wholesale contracts from the wholesale market (EnergyHedge) for Standard Power.
We use Meridian as a ‘broker’ to buy from EnergyHedge as we are not a member. This is a full pass-through arrangement and is purely administrative.
EnergyHedge is an anonymous wholesale market where all the major generators buy and sell energy - we do not need, nor do we have any guarantee from Meridian because there are always contracts available on EnergyHedge.
July 20th, 2009 at 11:01 amWell that sounds pretty independent to me.
However, regarding not needing any guarantee from Meridian - hypothetically should a situation arise where prices on Energy Hedge surged due to drough, etc, your book wasnt adequately hedged which left you exposed to having to buy power at unusually high prices…. if I remember correctly similar scenarios have happened to independent retailers (e.g. Energy One in Aussie) who do not have a natural hedge by means of owning their own generation.
So in such a situation would Meridian step in and provide power?
Because if Meridian didnt step in, what contigencies does your model have to handle such an event?
July 20th, 2009 at 12:14 pm@John:
We are acutely aware of the risks that come with trading wholesale energy. We have seen disaster scenarios closer to home too, with the difficulties OnEnergy found themselves in. It is for precisely this reason that we have adopted a conservative trading strategy - buying most of our energy 6-12m in advance (before market conditions, such as drought, are reflected in wholesale prices). That way we should have a similar energy cost structure to generator/retailers (unless they are cross-subsidising retail through wholesale margins).
One thing I need to be clear on - there is no need for anyone to ’step in and provide power’ - physical power is purchased from the wholesale spot market. The issues is a financial issue - whether or not Powershop has the financial resources to continue paying for power. We are confident our trading strategy has minimised this risk. We also have short term funding facilities in place to allow us to manage short term working capital requirements during extraordinary market events.
July 20th, 2009 at 2:31 pm@Ari - Sorry, you are right it is a financial issue. I should have said “Will Meridian step in and provide the necessary funding”. However, it sounds like you’ve got this covered!
On another note, Consumer NZ’s Powerswitch doesnt seem to include Powershop in their list of retailers and in their calculator to compare electricity prices. Any idea why? It might convince some of the skeptics if an ‘independent’ source showed them what they could save by switching!
July 20th, 2009 at 3:08 pm@John:
In fact we do show up on Power Switch, but unfortunately because our pricing structure is different they can’t include us in the main listing. A link to Powershop appears at the bottom of the list in the areas we supply (or at least the main centres). We are told they are upgrading Power Switch, hopefully they can build the functionality to include Powershop’s pricing then. We will certainly be encouraging them to.
July 20th, 2009 at 4:07 pmAri
what you mean to your knowledge you don;t know if you you have stopped any other suppliers from selling their power through here. shouldn’t this just be a shop where other companies provide their power at competitive prices and sell them to the general market like us. or is it more like Meridian is deciding on how much they charge each supplier?
it seems ridiculous to think that a company that is Owned by Meridian can be independent of them. well they basically own you and in that regards you can NOT do anything without their advise and supervision! Correct if i am wrong there are lots of power companies and NONE what so ever is sullying power on here it must have to do something with your owners Meridian not letting them?
July 20th, 2009 at 6:40 pmMike, I think it is the other way round. Meridian doesn’t have a motivation to stop other companies from selling on Powershop, rather, it is the other companies that have problems with this. If I was a competing company, why would I want to sell my power through one of my competitors?
July 20th, 2009 at 7:14 pm@Mike:
Quite wrong. Meridian has no involvement what so ever in whom Powershop does business with. And we do not charge suppliers to sell through Powershop. However, all shops have criteria around the products they sell. Try getting a new product line into a supermarket.
We have not prevented any of the existing retailers from participation. As Felix suggests, perhaps they see Meridian’s ownership as a problem, or perhaps they don’t like the prospect of transparency and true competition - where the movement of a mouse is the only barrier to a customers purchasing decision, where they must earn every sale rather than rely on confusion and customer apathy to retain their custom.
July 20th, 2009 at 8:04 pmFirstly, let me say that if Mercury call me about a ‘buy back’ option, I would be suggesting to them to sell through powershop if they won’t my custom…
But, i’m curious to know what the benefits of big power companies might be to sell through powershop.
Their products would not be any different to the ’standard power’ and ‘flower power’ that are sold already, would they? In that case, wouldn’t people just go for the cheapest?
Or can they have the option to occasionally sell specials through powershop to sell-off excess power they may have purchased from the wholesale market?
July 21st, 2009 at 11:12 am@Jared:
That is part of the beauty of Powershop. Suppliers are forced to develop products of value to customers, otherwise customers will just buy the cheapest as you say.
We expect that there will be specials or sales from time to time where suppliers have ‘excess stock’ - as we did with our April Clearance Sale. We also expect that there will be other things that suppliers can/will do to increase market share, such as environmental or community based products, loyalty programmes (such as Fly Buys, or Genesis’ Brownie Points programme), proze draws etc. It is true retail at work.
July 21st, 2009 at 4:14 pmAri
ok say if i join this Company which is OWNED by another company so basically its like joining Meridian. would you guarentee that this the power sold on here will be the cheapest compared to all other suplliers. e.e would i still save a whopping 40$ per year??
and can you answer why is it that you are selling the cheapest power at 18c/kw where you buy them for 1c/kw? its like a 1800% increase isn;t that what every other major supplier does to RIP us off? so hwy are you following the if you were so independent of them.
July 22nd, 2009 at 9:36 amHi Ari
i have just recently completed the sign up process how ever my current supllier is not letting go until late August for me to join you. how ever i have a question. in Dunedin the cheapest power is day/night plan, but with my current supplier i am on a All inclusive plane. so what can i do to change to day/night? and the savings calculator says i will save $220 per year is that based on day/night rate in Dunedin or the normal rate? i only have 1 meter as we are students and renting.
oh and Recently after finding out we are leaving Contact energy offered us $250 to keep with them for another year, so wouldn’t it be wise to stay with since i save $220 per year on here? which i don’t know on what plan?
July 22nd, 2009 at 9:40 am@Mike:
Like I said above:
Unfortunately we cannot give you a water tight guarantee - mainly, because we cannot do a like-for-like comparison between our pricing and other retailers tariffs. The level of savings you make will depend on how much and when you use your power.
The $40 estimated savings relates to a ‘typical customer’ - we have chosen this as a benchmark because we simply have no way of knowing how much and when customers will use their power and therefore how much they will spend.
To be honest at $40 savings you might save a little, you might spend a little more, but there won’t be much in it either way. If you factor in additional savings if you take advantage of specials and monitor your usage more closely you are more likely to save.
In terms of your suggestion that we are making a super-profit, I’d like to see it. In practice we are losing money right now. Because we deliberately adopted a conservative hedging strategy our effective purchase cost, accounting for hedge contracts is more like 9.5-10c/kWh, then you have lines charges and meter lease costs at around 7c/kWh you get pretty close to 18c/kWh without even factoring our own costs of operation. The generators are earning their 9.5-10c/kWh while the market is at 1c/kWh, certainly not us.
July 22nd, 2009 at 9:59 am@Akmal:
A few weeks delay in switching is normal - it allows the losing retailer to read your meter before the transfer.
You cannot actually change from an ‘All inclusive” to a Day/Night plan unless you have a new meter installed - which obviously costs and you would need your landlord’s consent.
In terms of the offer from Contact. You have the potential to save more with Powershop if you take advantage of specials and monitor your usage. But if you think the offer from Contact is a better one for you, then certainly take it.
July 22nd, 2009 at 10:08 am@ Ari
so the savings predicted by the calculator is i assume from day/nigh plan since that is the cheapest? right?? oh and also how to i get any specials now?
July 22nd, 2009 at 12:38 pm@ Akmal
When you use the savings calculator, you have to enter a particular tarrif plan. So the savings it calculated will be for whatever plan you entered.
July 22nd, 2009 at 2:57 pm@Akmal:
As per Andrew’s response. You can calculate your estimated savings for your ‘All inclusive’ rate by selecting Contact/All Day economy in the calculator.
July 22nd, 2009 at 4:50 pmAri
so you are saying that you loosing Money?? umm well why do i smell bull crap? i think Meridian is making Billions out of poor people that struggle to do about their day to day business. hence this company is owned by them so it will be naive and stupid of me to think that they don;t want to Make more money and more billions of extra money out of naive NZ customers. i feel like that electricity companies such as yourself got it quite easy to prey on customers in NZ if it was anywhere else in the world you will be held accountable for such high prices you are charging.
due to extensive research its shown that power is bought at 1-2 c /kw and the power companies are selling them for 20-30 c/kw plus other charges. now tell me that is not complete ripping off? Its redicouls to say the other charges are for meter reading and meter charges? Its A joke all i am saying is that why do you pretend to be independent but hence u are owned by a greedy big company?
All we want is a REAL competitive electricity company that works for the people of NZ and not stealing their hard ear money.
I am NOT supporting any company i think you are all a JOKE in not helping kiwis to save but instead try to come up with new innovative ides to Rip them OFF.
regards
Mike Burch
July 23rd, 2009 at 1:10 pm@ Ari
regarding your message to mike can you tell us what criteria powershop has in regards to other suppliers selling their power?
July 23rd, 2009 at 1:11 pm@Mike
Can you explain how this is a rip off if you’ll be saving $45?
Anyway, you’ll want to talk to MPs if you want to change the electricity market, complaining here won’t achieve anything.
July 23rd, 2009 at 1:28 pm@ Felix
let the guy who operates the site answer the question, oh unless if you are in their pay roll or hoping to get discounts its a different scene. because of people like you that don;t do anything the whole of NZ is being ripped off by big power companies. i say if you stop being a COWARD and start trying to defend your right rather let other do it for you, you would go some where.
July 23rd, 2009 at 1:44 pm@ Felix
people like you are making us kiwis look and sound like a coward and just follow what ever the companies do. so i complain hoping to save the people of NZ from unnecessary charges and expenses, because obvious you are too lazy or a coward to do it . STAND UP for YOUR rights all i say.
July 23rd, 2009 at 1:46 pm@Mike:
Clearly you have strong feelings about power companies. And I commend you for standing up and trying to do something about it. However, I think you unfairly tarnish us with the same brush.
1. We are a standalone retailer. We do not have our own generation (or access to Meridian’s or anyone elses). We do not have preferential access to the the wholesale market. By anyone’s analysis electricity retailing margins are small - your numbers simply don’t stack up. Ultimately to turn a profit Powershop must achieve scale.
2. We are the ONLY company in the market doing anything different. We are genuinely trying to de-mystify electricity and bring transparency and competition to the market.
3. We are bringing a low cost internet model to the market to deliver savings (and yes, in some cases these are modest) and better information to customers. And of course Meridian wants to make a return on the investment in Powershop (as would any investor). But if that investment delivers lower power prices to customers, is that such a bad thing?
I suspect that if we weren’t owned by Meridian you might actually like what we are trying to do. So why not give us the benefit of the doubt?
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:38 pm@Akmal:
The main criteria for suppliers are:
1. We need to be convinced they will be valued by customers, and they must fit with our basic business model. We do not have the budget or capacity to develop significant deviations. For example, we have had some enquiries about Powershop serving a small ‘closed’ customer base. Unfortunately the economics of this don’t stack up for us yet.
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:44 pm2. We need suppliers to provide appropriate credit support. Suppliers will sell energy credits to customers at a fixed price (in many cases in advance) and will need to subsequently purchase energy at floating spot market prices. We need to be confident that suppliers will be in a position to meet their commitments to our customers and not leave them stranded.
Ari
yeah you are right if we knew that you are 100% owned and operated by kiwis and NOT owned by a major company who have proved to have done nothing except Rip customers and kiwis off then i would have joined hoping that you won’t be as greedy as them, well i am NOT saying not to make profit but for God sake NOT 4.8 Billion dollars that is just TOTALLY wrong and selfish.
oh and trust me there are thousands of us that are just like me but as Felix pointed out they are not brave or active enough to do something about it. which i think is the main reason why the power companies are taking advantage of them. if we all join forces and just don’t pay the high power bills like most other countries have done then the power companies have no choice but to comply with the major population.
July 23rd, 2009 at 8:40 pm@Mike:
You can rest assured we are not here to rip people off. We are anything but a big corporate - we are a bunch of around 25 people genuinely wanting to give ‘power to the people’. I think we are aligned with you on that goal. We have a way to go yet, but forcing suppliers to earn custom and actively compete by delivering value to customers is a significant part of the Powershop model.
July 23rd, 2009 at 9:17 pm@ Mike
i fully agree with and i was just in your shoes a awhile ago after a bit of thought and research i thought well why NOT give these guys a try just give them the benefit of the doubt, that is what i am doing if i don’t like then i am i just fuck off and tell every one i know how bad this company is. in regards to Felix commenting you i had the same problems with him too i guess he is paid by this company to spread propaganda i hate people like that wish i could see them face to face you know what i mean
July 24th, 2009 at 8:10 pm@ Ari
My current supplier Contact energy keep contacting me and trying to change my mind they have offered cash back vouchers as well double fly pints and 12% prompt discounts. NOW that is allot of stuff to turn down. they also said that your prices are NOT guaranteed and they will change. They also claimed that numerous number of people are leaving powershop and going back to their old suppliers. are these fact or just bullocks?
July 24th, 2009 at 8:13 pm@Akmal:
For the record Felix is not on our payroll. He is just a happy customer. We are happy to let everyone have their say on our blog, and the record shows we allow both positive and negative views on Powershop to be expressed.
Contact Energy has lost over 35,000 customers since last October when there was a public reaction to a proposal to double Directors fees. They are desperate not to lose any more, which is why they are prepared to pay so much to encourage people not to switch away. As you said the $250 they have offered is about the same as you would save with Powershop each year. But put another way they are simply over charging you, and giving you a one-off payment to keep you. They are subverting true competition.
They are also using underhand tactics like telling ‘half-truths’ about Powershop. We stand by our savings commitments even though our pricing is variable - we have always been open about this. These tactics reek of desperation. Perhaps they are really scared of Powershop?
And yes, we have had a small number of customers switch away, but with their existing retailers offering them up to $300 this is to be expected. The vast majority of our customers are very happy.
Like I said to you earlier, if you think Contact’s offer is a good one, or perhaps just too good to turn down, then by all means take it.
Why don’t you tell all your friends to switch to Powershop, they might also get offered $250 ‘free’ power from Contact, and if they don’t they will be better off with us anyway.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:15 pmCurrently doing sums to install solar and wind power at home and wish to sell surplus (day) energy to the grid. Will powershop buy and at what cost and conditions?
July 25th, 2009 at 10:12 am@John:
I will get someone to contact you to discuss your setup and what we can do for you.
July 25th, 2009 at 10:20 am@ Ari
i have already signed up and as you said i really don’;t see why they trying to help now after for so long over charging us but i am hoping that this site will not cost me more i have a copy of all my bills will have a double;e check and yes will see how this works out.
do i still get 50$ bonus as i was told b4?
July 26th, 2009 at 10:18 pm@Akmal:
Yes, happy to extend the original offer.
July 27th, 2009 at 10:23 pmAri
July 29th, 2009 at 3:53 pmI’m impressed with your responses - especially to @mike. To have passion for what you are doing is fantastic.
I’d just like to say I signed up after months of contemplating alternatives - but not actually doing anything. I love the control I have over my energy useage. For me it’s not so much about saving $$$ - rather it’s more to do with tracking actual consumption - and changing behaivours. I love Powershop. I wouldn’t go back. And my previous supplier - Contact - called me 6 weeks after changing - asked me why (cheaper power for a low user) said thanks for your time, and that was that. No bribes. Not that it would have made any difference!
@Sarah:
Thanks for the feedabck Sarah, and glad you’re enjoying your Powershop experience.
And we agree, being better informed, taking control and changing behaviours are the real benefits of Powershop.
July 29th, 2009 at 4:37 pmHi Ari
what do you say in regards to Meridian increasing their electricity charge on May 2009 just before the winter, even though the all the Dums are full and wind is free?
and also what do you say about Magniwork free electricity and the cover up you electricity suppliers have? please watch below and comment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0mvumkJy9Q
http://www.magniwork.com/default.php?hop=jajeisan
August 4th, 2009 at 6:54 pm@Akmal:
It is not really my job to defend Meridian’s pricing, but an increase just prior to winter without providing customers with any way of managing the increased cost is pretty poor form.
In relation to Magniwork free electricity, I can assure you I am not part of any international conspiracy to prevent this or any other new supply technology coming to market. I would comment (as they also did in the video) that there is no such thing as free. Hydro power is free, wind power is also free, but there is a cost in building the technology to harness these free power sources and turn them into electricity. There may also be a need to build large scale ‘energy storage’ facilities (which are really expensive) if the energy source is not aligned with when the power is needed. Bring me a working prototype and I will be happy to negotiate a power purchase agreement!
August 4th, 2009 at 8:50 pm@ Ari
good to know you are not involved in any conspiracy in regards to Magniwork, but if i were you i would start my own investigation and see how it really works, and you will be surprised that if you do start asking too many questions you bosses from Meridian might make you shut up.
As per video i know nothing is for free but with that generator you can use 20% power and generate 80% more so you are making 60% free electricity. i have started to look into but it just makes me think why power companies are NOT doing the same. may be because they will loose billions of revenue?
it really wouldn’t hurt if you look into it and see for yourself how big a conspiracy and criminal the energy and power market is.
Any way back to powershop now, i am trialing it in a few weeks time and i was wondering if you know would it be economical to switch the heat pump OFF during the day when we are Not home? i have head that if you switch it on and off it cost more but it just don;t make sense to me. do you know?
also what times is day/night plans? Contact energy starts their night at 11pm which makes me really freaking hate them for doing that since night start at 5pm in winter NOT 11pm.
August 5th, 2009 at 11:14 am@Akmal the day/night times are dependent on you lines company, not your retail company.
August 5th, 2009 at 11:35 am@ Ari
can you please answer the above questions of mine?
August 6th, 2009 at 4:55 pm@Akmal:
Sure, sorry. Felix is correct the timing of Day/Night is determined by the lines company. We have no ability to change that. It may be possible to have your night meter removed, but this will cost you and you will end up paying more for your power.
August 6th, 2009 at 5:07 pmAri,
I noticed my power prices dropped today - excellent! Its bang on 3 months since I joined - is this just how the system works?
I’m guessing my prices dropped for one of the following reasons:
- Lower wholesale prices; or
- Personalised pricing because of increased usage over winter - thus i’ve been deemed to have ‘higher than typical’ usage patterns.
However, I’m feeling disappointed this has happened a day before my account is due to be reviewed. I have been buying power all month using the weekly special packs that were set at a rate higher than what is now my everyday pack rate. It doesn’t make sense that should I have waited until I was obliged to buy power after my account was reviewed… and I predict that last month is my highest usage (1200+ units), so have paid a lot more in power than I could have if I had waited.
Doesn’t this go against powershop’s ’stay in the green’ motto?
August 6th, 2009 at 6:53 pm@Jared:
We regularly review all customers accounts - the 3m timing is purely coincidental.
When we review your consumption we ‘annualise’ your consumption, so we have already allowed for the fact that July is a high consumption month. What you have experienced is the initial ‘adjustment’ - we assume that all customers are average at the time they signup, because we don’t have any of your historic usage information. Now that we have an idea about your consumption your prices will stabilise at the lower level (unless your consumption changes dramatically), and regularly topping up by buying specials will be of benefit to you.
I’ll will get someone to review your account and provide you with more detail of your particular circumstances.
August 6th, 2009 at 8:46 pm@Ari
Thanks, got the review.
I am very impressed in the descrease in price and I am certain this is the best deal available in West Auckland - which I believe is the highest priced area that powershop sells to.
When you say usage is ‘annualised’, do you account for usage decreasing during warmer months? Or is it a lineal rolling estimation as I continue to build-up a history?
August 7th, 2009 at 5:53 pmIn other words, would my prices increase a little after a few months of summer?
@Jared:
By annualised I mean that we estimate your annual usage based on monthly data, taking account of seasonal patterns. So the fact that your summer usage is lower does not necessarily mean your prices will go back up. What matters is where you sit relative to an ‘average’ user.
August 7th, 2009 at 9:05 pm@Ari
I see the light! Thanks Ari.
I just found the “What is a typical customer” explaination in the FAQ, I don’t know why I hadn’t seen it before, but thats a handy resource!
Thanks again for your help
August 7th, 2009 at 10:26 pm@Jared:
No problem, happy to be of assistance.
August 7th, 2009 at 10:28 pmBeing a new customer for about 1 month it still beats me how the daily average on my account is calculated. After using 20, 18, 20 17 units in consecutive days and entering it in the meter readings the daily average still shows 21.4 units. Just out of curiosity how is that calculated?
August 8th, 2009 at 9:18 am@Thomas:
We have a number of ‘rules’ we use when calculating the daily consumption to ensure that any spikes or other anomalies are taken out. In general, these rules will give you a daily consumption that is a 5 day rolling average. If you enter a meter reading in a couple of days you should see it drop to reflect the lower usage you have had over the past few days.
August 8th, 2009 at 12:53 pmI never sign up with any power suppliers before, if I move to a new house, I would like to sign up under my name, can I sign up with powershop or do I have to sign up with other suppliers first then transfer to powershop after. Thanks!
August 10th, 2009 at 12:50 am@Marty:
You can sign up direct with Powershop. Call 0800 2000 40 if you have problems.
August 10th, 2009 at 7:43 amwhy is it taking so long to get signed up its been more than 4 weeks now?
August 11th, 2009 at 6:41 pm@Akmal:
Sorry about the delay, unfortunately it is not within our control. Your current retailer has 23 business days from the date of notification of your switch to transfer your account.
Your switch was actually scheduled to occur today, so your file should come to us tomorrow.
August 11th, 2009 at 10:24 pmHi Ari
well again this morning i read the news and again its a bad one for electricity suppliers. i wonder if you had read the article below:
http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/electricity-prices-excessive-review-finds-2907006
and also how come you still do NOT have any of Meridian competitors selling their electricity supplies through powershop?
August 12th, 2009 at 1:29 pmHi Ari,
Judging by this blog and the one contact I had with the person on your phone help desk, Powershop is setting a new benchmark for customer responsiveness as well as for price. Well done.
I am keen to time some of my usage so that it occurs as night usage. My problem is finding out what hours are deemed to be “night”.
I noted your earlier posts that :
“The definition of ‘night’ is dictated by the lines company (Wellington Lines in your case). I have searched their website but can’t see any times specified, so I’ll have to get back to you on this.”
and
“the timing of Day/Night is determined by the lines company”
I phoned my lines company (Wellington Electricity Lines Ltd) and asked what hours were “night” usage only to be told that it is my retail company that has that information. I told the operator that my retailer says the lines company has that information. She went and checked with her manager who insisted it is the retailer who has it.
Can you help please ? And if it turns out that it is Wellington Electricity Lines Ltd that is being secret squirrel , perhaps your company could extract the information from them and post it here ?
August 12th, 2009 at 1:31 pmPeter… I’m in Wellington, and my night rate runs from 11pm to 7am.
If you are up that late and go to your meter box, you should be able to see the night/day switch click up/down to the new tarrif. Either that, or you’ll be able to see the night rate light start flashing to indicate power is being used on that meter rather than the day meter.
August 12th, 2009 at 4:47 pm@Peter:
Yes, it is far too difficult to find this information out. It is the lines company that controls this, but you’re right, there is no information on their website or in their pricing schedule. I will see if we can get a definitive answer for you, but for now I would use the information supplied by Andrew (thanks!).
August 12th, 2009 at 5:31 pm@Akmal:
Yes, I have been following the news. Although I guess there are no real surprises for you in today’s commentary.
Like I have said many times, our door is always open to other retailers to sell through Powershop. It is not us who is preventing them, it is their lack of willingness or capability.
August 12th, 2009 at 5:42 pmThanks Andrew and Ari
As 11 pm came and went I was peering at my meter. On my particular meter there was no visible switch movement or telltale light. But it was certainly the night meter decimal digits that were moving after 11, and I suspect not before though will have to check tomorrow to make sure.
I live in Lower Hutt so I suspect our “night” will turn out to be the same “night” as Wellington.
August 12th, 2009 at 11:19 pmYeah, trial and error is probably your best bet. I only changed to Day/Night a few months ago and so the lines company installed some brand new meters with nice flashing lights and so forth which makes it easy to tell. Plus, I chatted to the technician doing the install and he showed me how it changed over from one tarrif to the nex.
August 13th, 2009 at 12:29 am@ Ari
thanks for your prompt answers finally i have been connected. NOW there seems to be a problem with the pricing.
i was given $50 from powershop and you guys have bought power on my behalf which is nice but NOT the cheapest i am being charged 20.41c per unit which is NOT the cheapest on the shop i wonder why this has happened?
August 13th, 2009 at 10:36 amI have just joined. I hope I am getting value for money, otherwise Ta Ta.
August 13th, 2009 at 1:50 pm@Akmal:
It looks like your account has been sorted now. Basically what happened is that prices on Powershop have dropped since you signed up.
August 13th, 2009 at 3:13 pm@William:
We wouldn’t have it any other way. I am sure you will not be disappointed.
August 13th, 2009 at 3:14 pm@Ari
thanks for your time to reply to all my messages, one of the reasons i joined up was because of you and how you honestly replied all comments. if things work out and this seems the way i would get most of my family and close friends to join as well even though i don;t like the fact Meridian owns this company.
I was wondering why don;t you do something like get $50 worth of free power if you refer a friend? it will encourage most of us to get our mates on this.
August 13th, 2009 at 4:56 pm@Akmal:
We did run a friend-get-friend campaign earlier in the year, and we will be running another one before the end of the year - so there will be an opportunity to profit from you persuasion abilities!
August 13th, 2009 at 5:07 pmHi.
Our household uses a high amount of electricty per month, approximately 1700-2600 units per month.
I noticed that the power pricing guide on the website is more suited to low usage customers, therefore my calculations don’t appear to reflect that I’ll save any money. Do you have indicative pricing available for our usage pattern?
Thanks
August 16th, 2009 at 3:27 pmHarry
@Harry:
Please call us on 0800 2000 40, ask for Jim and he can work through your savings calculations with you.
August 16th, 2009 at 5:04 pmHi Ari
i have signed up and so far trailing this and it looks preety good i wold like to thank you for being upfront and answering most questions honestly except the pricing justifications :).
i still don’t get how you justify your pricing per unit for your customers. after reading the government review its obvious that we are being OVER charged especially down in south island. if you saw the news today it just shows how much we are being overcharged. are you doing anything about it and may be telling your bosses to STOP over charging us?
Also as you said that legally you should read the meters twice a year and could it be possible for us to read our own meters hence SAVING you costs and as a result decrease our power price, wold that be possible?
August 20th, 2009 at 8:32 pm@Akmal:
Glad to hear you are enjoying Powershop.
As I have said before, Powershop buy electricity from the wholesale market. We do not have any generation and we have no influence on what that price is.
I did see that report on electricity bills on the late news. It appeared to me that a lot of the increase related to how much power was being used, rather than an increase in prices. That is where Powershop is really valuable because customers can see how much they are using very quickly simply by updating their meter reading. This means they can do something about their consumption before they use it, rather than being slammed with a $700 bill at the end of winter when it is too late to do anything about it.
We are certainly looking at how we can use customer readings instead of sending a meter reader out, more for customer convenience than cost, because to be honest the cost savings are modest in most areas (perhaps $20 per year).
August 21st, 2009 at 7:59 amHi ari
i understand that you buy most of your power from Meridian the owners of powershop so why don’t you tell them NOT to over charge and increase their prices every winter to maximize profits while the lake water levels are high and most of Meridian energy if free from solar or wind, so you would think they be the cheapest compared to the rest, but it seems like there is a price fixing going and all of the different companies have around the same pricing plans.
August 21st, 2009 at 8:32 pm@Akmal:
Our power is sourced from the wholesale market (not Meridian), and as I said we don’t have any influence over Meridian’s or any other generators pricing. Right or wrong, the way any market works is that producers try and sell to the buyer that is prepared to pay the most, so Meridian (or anyone else) is not going to sell power to us cheap, when they can sell at a higher price to the market. Unfortunately ‘it is what it is’ and we have to the best we can by buying from the wholesale market.
August 21st, 2009 at 9:42 pmHi Ari
August 22nd, 2009 at 3:12 pmWith regards to the TV One story about pensioners complaining about power prices, are there plans to make Powershop more accessible to people who may not be used to internet shopping?
@Felix:
To a degree. At the end of the day you need to have internet access to use Powershop effectively. However, we are currently working on making our weekly emails more informative. This will mean that customers unfamiliar with internet shopping can ’set-and-forget’, while still receiving regular updates. To avoid the sort of ‘bill shock’ that these people have had also relies on having up to date information (ie. regular meter reads).
August 22nd, 2009 at 5:47 pmThanks, another question.
August 23rd, 2009 at 10:37 pmDo you have enough data now to put up the historical prices for the different products?
@Felix:
Yeah, we probably do. We have over 6m of usable data now, and it something we are keen to share. We are currently working on other changes to our website, so this will need to wait a little longer though.
August 23rd, 2009 at 10:44 pmHi Ari
i think the following statement is very confusing! i can’t get my head around it, so does it mean i have to use units i buy before the account review? and what is account review anyway?
i think you should make it clear and give it an expiry date for all units purchased and make it CLEAR.
i was given 291 units from powershop and then i purchased a powerpack of 150 units to use for spring and my account say after review 250 + 50 and i now 180 units left. i dont get it.
“Units are valid between the last date prior to relevant month that Powershop reviews your account and the first date after the relevant month that your account is reviewed”
August 24th, 2009 at 9:25 am@Akmal:
A couple of things going on here.
I agree the wording of the validity period is confusing. We have been struggling to make it simpler while also making sure it is correct. The main reason it is complicated is that all customers do not have the meter read on the same day of the month - so we allow a ‘grace period’. Perhaps the best way to explain it is to use an example.
Lets say your meter reading is normally done around the 20th of the month (these are not fixed and may vary, but let’s assume the 20th for the example). So a ‘September’ powerpack will be valid from your account review based on your 20 August reading (the prior review) to your account review on 20 October (the review after) - you can see there is a grace period before and after ‘September’. However, we recommend that you do not rely on this grace period when buying power as the day your meter is read and/or your account is reviewed can vary from month to month depending on the meter reading cycle in your area.
In terms of your account balance, the ‘180 units’ you have left are a total of the units between now and when you are likely to need more (ie. your balance hits 0) and will not include units that are available for a future month (the idea being we want to alert you to the fact that you need to buy some more). In your case, you have purchase a spring pack, that includes units valid for September, October and November - none of these are yet active. If you go to the ‘My Account’ page and select the ‘Products Purchased’ report you will see that these September - November units are still available.
Sorry, this is a little confusing, but I think once you understand it I think it makes sense.
August 24th, 2009 at 11:17 amAri,
You are an extremely patient man!!
However, unlike you, I’m a bit impatient… any progress on coming to Rotorua yet?
Cheers,
John
August 24th, 2009 at 3:31 pm@John:
Sorry John, you may need to dig deep and pull out some patience. No further progress on Rotorua yet. We are in negotiations with a number of lines companies (including Unison) but have yet to reach agreement. We also need to work through any wholesale market price risk in the area. Again, I wouldn’t like to create false hope and commit to a date for entering Rotorua.
August 24th, 2009 at 3:41 pmAri
i agree with John that you are a patient man
but c’mon do you really expect your customers to understand all that you explained? why NOT make it very simple? for example give it a clear expiry date and get customers to read their own meters. i think that is very confusing for intellectual like myself no wonder other would have way more difficulty understanding.
regards
Akmal
August 24th, 2009 at 7:36 pm@Akmal:
Sorry, I have obviously not done a good job at describing the ‘validity’ period to you. What seems like a simple concept does have a number of complexities. We did have a simple explanation (that wasn’t techincally correct), but even though the inaccuracy of the description was to the benefit of the customer, our legal advice was that the description needs to be correct.
If you want to think of a ‘September’ product as being available for use only in September, that is an OK approximation, but just be aware that some units could be used in either August and/or October.
If you want to think of a ‘September’ product as being available for use between when we last read you meter in August until when we first read your meter in October - this will be accurate in 99% of cases. The 1% exceptions arise if we cannot read your meter and have to estimate your usage (eg. we can’t access an inside meter, or a dog on the property prevents the meter reader getting a reading etc.).
If ANYONE out there wants to try and describe the validity period in plain english (bearing in mind the constraints noted above) we will be ETERNALLY grateful.
As to your suggestion to use customer readings, while a good one, it is not one we want to use for two main reasons:
1) we want to make reading your own meter optional, otherwise it seems to much effort for some customers (and some customers cannot access their own meters, for example in apartment buildings).
2) we would need to have an exceptions process anyway to allow for customers who forget, or who might be on holiday. We would need to allow for these exceptions in the definition of validity period and then we’re back where we started.
If you do want us to reconcile your account on your meter reading (whether on the first of the month, or pay day or any other time), we are happy to do so. Just login and enter a meter reading and send us a ticket (click the feedback link at the top of the page) and ask for your account to be reviewed on your reading.
August 24th, 2009 at 9:16 pmUnits are valid for the period between two review dates, including the whole of the named month. Review dates vary.
For example, a September pack might be valid from about, say, 22 Aug to 19 Oct, but the actual dates will depend on when the meter is read.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:44 am@Matt:
I like the direction this is going, but I don’t think it is quite accurate yet. I will have another look at it later today.
August 25th, 2009 at 8:13 amAri
thanks for your response it seems the new sentence kind of makes some sense, but i will just wait and see what happens. i am still not entirely convened about this. i bought a spring power pack witch says i can use 50 units each month of the spring and then i also had some units left from the grant you gave me, so what if i don;t use all the units you granted in august and it goes over to September, do i loose them all?
also what if i buy say 3x spring power packs? 50 units each month.?
August 25th, 2009 at 7:30 pm@Akmal:
Yeah, we will try and make it simpler for everyone. I don’t think you need to worry too much about your units expiring. The product we granted has an expiry date of 31 October and the spring pack you bought gives you a few days worth of power for September, October and November. So as long as you don’t go silly you should be fine.
And yes, you can buy more than one Spring pack, every pack you buy will give you another 50 units (a few days power for you) for each month. We recommend that you don’t buy more than 20 days worth of power for any month in advance to avoid the risk of over buying.
August 25th, 2009 at 8:44 pm@Ari
can you explain to me in simple terms why is it that the close country next to us Australian electricity companies are charging their customers 3 times less than what we are being charged? isn’t this overcharging from your side?
i know that everyone is doing it but it does NOT make it ok for you i.e powershop to do it either. why NOT make power reasonable for people like most of the countries in the world? don’t take billions of profits just sittle with millions for once please.
August 28th, 2009 at 2:44 pm@Mike:
What you seem to be suggesting is like saying your local service station should sell cheap petrol even if global crude oil prices skyrocket.
We buy our electricity from the wholesale market. Wholesale prices are determined by how generators offer their production into the market. We (Powershop) are a price taker and have absolutely no influence over those prices. It is not that we think it is OK for us to charge high prices, and we’re certainly not charging what we do just because others are, it’s just that we must pay the cost of electricity we buy from the wholesale market and obviously need to recover that cost. Believe it or not the margins in retailing electricity are very small.
I am not trying to defend electricity prices in NZ. I think a fundamental problem is that the volatility of our hydro system combined with a lack of transparency in pricing makes it very difficult to determine whether there is overcharging going on or not.
I am not familiar with retail prices in Australia, but the structure of their energy industry is quite different despite their geographic closeness. For example, they have a number of coal fired power stations that are co-located with opencast mines - these are much cheaper to build and operate than the equivalent capacity in NZ. There are also scale benefits in larger markets.
We are not intending to take billions from our customers. We are trying to make a modest return at the same time as bringing our customers better deals on their power.
August 28th, 2009 at 3:56 pm@Ari
isn’t your boss Meridian generate their own electricity virtually at no cost and now you telling me you buying that power from your boss at high price and selling it in return to us kiwis that are struggling with every day life. all i am saying is that companies like Meridian that owns powershop generates free electricity so why charge so much when the hyrdo lakes are full and also winds are strong?
why DDON”T you go talk to your boss about these issues and really stand up as a provider.
August 31st, 2009 at 1:08 pm@Mike:
This issue is that there is a wholesale market - to generators this is a guaranteed buyer of their production. Why would my ‘boss’ sell electricity to Powershop any cheaper than they can sell it to the market? As much as I would love to have access to preferential wholesale pricing, this is not a commercial reality. I could rant and pester all I like, but the outcome is very unlikely to change.
August 31st, 2009 at 1:15 pmHi Ari,
August 31st, 2009 at 2:15 pmA suggestion and a question.
I was fortunate enough to log on on Saturday afternoon enabling me to see and grab some of the heavily discounted “Springclean” special. I note that two days later it is no longer on offer, and suspect that the window during which the offer was available was quite short. Maybe no more than 4 days ?
My suggestion for your “to do list” is to email customers advising them of “specials”.
My question is , in the meantime, how often do you recommend I log in so as not to miss future specials ?
Thanks
@Peter:
To be honest we are in two minds about if/how we promote ’specials’. We want to encourage and reward people logging in frequently to see what is changing in the shop and we also don’t want to ’spam’ people with what is essentially the electronic equivalent of junk mail. I have said to Felix (in another comment) that we will notify specials on twitter and we may also do so on our facebook page.
Most of our short duration specials are over the weekend, so I would suggest that if you log in on either a Saturday or Sunday you will get to see most specials. If you are doing that, why not also throw in a meter reading so you can monitor your usage.
August 31st, 2009 at 4:15 pmThanks Ari,
August 31st, 2009 at 5:02 pmI understand about wanting to incentivise visitors to the shop.
Should you decide to notify customers of specials by email as well as by twitter the spam concern could be eliminated by giving customers an opt in/opt out of special notifications toggle in their personal settings. (Disclosure of self-interest/handicap here. I am not a twitter user.)
In any event I will pop into the shop each weekend. I am already recording my meter readings weekly. Since joining Powershop buying electricity has become both interesting and fun even !
@Peter:
It is amazing how buying power can become fun, but it is quite common amongst our customers we are finding.
And it is probably me with the the twitter handicap (especially if you were to ask my family!).
We’ll keep this one under review as we do have developments already underway to revamp customer emails.
August 31st, 2009 at 5:14 pmHi Ari
so far i am quite liking what i see on powershop, as peter said its quite fun at sometimes and you can get kids to do reading of the meter and make them think to safe power as well. but my concern is that i feel like this is more like a share market where you always have to know when to buy and not. and the prices fluctuate so fast. just recently the price of power per watt was 16 something cents but now all of a sudden jumped up to nearly 18cents. see what i don’t get is that its spring time and winter is gone, then why increase the prices so fast? as peter said above why not keep them at low price for all to enjoy rather than making us to feel the experience of being in stock exchange.
September 1st, 2009 at 8:16 pm@Akmal:
You do not need to treat Powershop like trading shares (although you can for fun, if you like). You can set your default product to ‘cheapest available’ (under the My Settings tab) and you should still save money. If you log in and buy short term specials you can save even more. Buying the longer term (seasonal) power pack products is more about certainty - a bit like fixing mortgage rates. Rates could go higher or lower, but you have fixed your price.
As to your changes in price. I think you may not be comparing apples-with-apples. The ‘16 something’ I think was probably the price for a ‘Spring’ power pack (covering Sept - November), whereas the ‘nearly 18′ is the current price for Everyday power. We have not changed the price of Top up power for a while now.
You are right though, as we roll into spring/summer you can expect to see prices drop.
September 1st, 2009 at 9:03 pmWhen I looked today prices were @ ~14 c/kWh, last time i looked ~20 c/kWh.
1. is this right?
2. why?
3. how long will this last …
I already have a months power prepurchased and would prefer future pricing guidance rather than volitility.
September 2nd, 2009 at 8:46 amI second Aaron’s question.
I bought a $49.95 powerpack last night with 252 units (19.59c/unit). I logged on again today and imagine my surprise when I found out that the same pack is now priced at 15.5 cents/unit!
How did this happen?
September 2nd, 2009 at 11:24 am@Aaron @Shreyas:
Sorry guys, we did a system update last night and there was a glitch in pricing for some customers. This has been fixed now.
September 2nd, 2009 at 11:36 amThanks Ari.
But the prices have now increased from 19.6c/unit to 20.2c/unit. Can you please explain why?
September 2nd, 2009 at 12:34 pmAri
say if i wanted to change my meter configuration to day/night meter? how much would i save? i.e would there be a considerable amount saved hence most of our consumption is on weekends and at night after 5pm? also when does the night time start In Dunedin? i hope its NOT 11pm as that is just stupid.
oh and also do you have powershop in whangaraie i am convincing my friend to change over.
September 2nd, 2009 at 1:08 pmJust a note to anyone still getting the “closed for stocktake” message when trying to log in. I was too until I read that other posters were getting in to the shop . Refreshing my browser ( Google Chrome) when on the page with the “closed for stocktake” message enabled me to log in. ( I guess my browser must have been loading a cached page or something.)
September 2nd, 2009 at 1:30 pm@Peter I had the same thing a CTRL-F5 refresh fixed it for me
September 2nd, 2009 at 1:58 pmWow… Prices have just jumped from this morning between 2 and 4c (dependant on the packs) per unit. Please can you tell me why… This is a huge jump and prices are considerably dearer than the last 2 months.. This is huge - I thought things got cheaper in spring..
September 2nd, 2009 at 8:14 pm@Shreyas:
I think your queries have been resolved in the call you had from our customer service team - let me know if there is anything still outstanding.
September 2nd, 2009 at 8:38 pm@Peter @Warwick:
Thanks for that. I’ll log it as a bug to see if we can stop the ‘closed for stocktaking’ page caching.
September 2nd, 2009 at 8:39 pm@Simon:
We released a major upgrade of our systems last night. This impacted on the prices seen by some customers. We did not intend for prices to increase and we are currently checking all prices. All Everyday products should now be priced correctly, but there may still be some anomalies with power packs. We are working to get these resolved ASAP.
September 2nd, 2009 at 8:43 pm@Akmal:
I will have to get back to you on the information about switching to a day/night rate as I don’t have the information to hand.
We are not currently supplying Whangarei. Get your friend to join our mailing list and we’ll let them know as soon as we can supply their area.
September 2nd, 2009 at 8:48 pmFYI - These were not just everyday prices but also specials … This is huge…
September 2nd, 2009 at 9:12 pm@Simon:
You are correct. I have just clarified the situation with our Energy Manager. Prices are now correct for all ‘Standard Power’ products. We are working with our other suppliers to get their prices confirmed ASAP. This should be complete by the end of the week.
We regret and apologise for this situation and you can rest assured we are working to resolve the outstanding issues as quickly as we can.
September 2nd, 2009 at 9:21 pm- Sorry i just read your reply again and am not sure of your meaning.. ‘This impacted on the prices seen by some customers. We did not intend for prices to increase and we are currently checking all prices. All Everyday products should now be priced correctly’ - Are you saying that the price increases I see for Everyday products (between 2 & 4c per kw) are correct or incorrect…
September 2nd, 2009 at 9:33 pmAri, yes I received a phone call explaining the price glitch (from 19.6c to 15.5c per unit) this afternoon. Thanks for that.
However, I still don’t understand why the prices have increased from the 19.6 c/unit to 20.2c/unit. Am I missing something here or was the increase intentional?
September 2nd, 2009 at 9:40 pm@Simon:
My apologies I said ‘All Everyday’ products, but when I clarified the situation with our energy manager I realised I should have said ‘All Standard Power’ products.
So the price you see for Standard Power ‘Top up’ and Standard Power power packs should now be correct. They should be the around the same as they were yesterday (possibly even a little lower) - they certainly shouldn’t be 2-4c/kWh more expensive.
Meridian, Flower Power, The Green Power Company and Tree Power products have yet to be updated following the system change we made last night (and are likely to be higher than they were yesterday), and we are working with them to get their prices confirmed ASAP.
Overall we do expect our prices to be falling at this time of year and this is likely to be the case over coming weeks.
September 2nd, 2009 at 9:51 pm@Simon:
I now know why you might be confused. It turns out the we hold all ‘offers’ we have made to customers until midnight before presenting updated prices. So, the updates we did early today to correct ‘Standard Power’ are not yet visible to you. Nornally these would be refreshed at midnight, but we have just reset them for you. Log in again and you should see lower prices for ‘Standard Power’ products.
September 2nd, 2009 at 10:08 pm@Shreyas:
Turns out you have the same issue as Simon. Your prices were corrected during the day, but would not normally have become visible to you until midnight. As with Simon we have just reset your prices, so if you log in you will also see lower prices.
September 2nd, 2009 at 10:10 pmHi Ari - I appreciate your quick replies and hope you are getting paid overtime… No nothing has changed…….. I have also noticed that it used to show my night and day usage when i click on a specific product to purchase, this does not show any more..
September 2nd, 2009 at 10:32 pm@Simon:
Strange. I am seeing 13.13c/kWh for Top up for your account - is that what you currently see?
Also the day/night breakdown is there if you click the little ? above the unit price.
If your pricing doesn’t look correct by the morning (ie. after midnight) would you mind calling us on 0800 2000 40 and ask for Jim - he’s our expert and should be able to sort things out.
September 2nd, 2009 at 10:39 pmA quick follow up from your last reply - Sorry but i am not ‘confused’ please look at my purchase this morning it was not the cheapest on offer and has had the smallest increase… (i apologise only 1.22c) If you want to reinstate this mornings prices i would be happy to make more purchases….
September 2nd, 2009 at 10:43 pm@Simon:
Yeah, sorry. I thought the issue might have been that we have talking at crossed purposes because we were looking at different information - which I think we may have been. But I see from your recent purchase history that things still aren’t quite right. I’ll get Jim to take a closer look in the morning. Sorry to muck you around.
September 2nd, 2009 at 10:50 pmAn explanatory note to everyone about pricing glitches yesterday.
On Tuesday night at around 10pm we released a major system update to our production system. Part of this update involved some structural changes to our database.
The update itself went smoothly, however as a result of human error there was a mistake in some pricing data affecting a small number of customers.
The original error resulted in affected customers seeing lower prices than intended. If you are one of the affected customers and purchased power between 10pm Tuesday and 12pm Wednesday you have got yourself a bargain.
As soon as we noticed this error we made a correction to the data. Unfortunately as a result of this correction a small number of customers may have seen a small increase in their prices. This was not our intention.
Today we will review all prices to ensure that no customers are any worse off as a result of the system update. We will do this directly for ‘Standard Power’ products.
We do not set the prices for other suppliers’ products, however, we have alerted them to the impact of the system changes we have made and have asked them to confirm or update their prices as soon as possible. We expect this to be complete by the end of the week.
If you have purchased any products since 12pm yesterday at a price higher than your current prices you can get a refund on these products on your ‘My account’ page within 48 hours of your original purchase.
We regret this error and apologise to anybody who has been inconvenienced.
September 3rd, 2009 at 7:32 amthanks for you hard work there Ari, yeah it be great if i get some info on day/night rate?
September 3rd, 2009 at 9:22 am@Akmal:
Right, some information for you. Treat this as indicative at this stage, you may want to do more detailed analysis before you make any decisions.
Your power use seems to be pretty close to an average customer in Dunedin (9,000 kWh pa). Our savings calculator estimates and annual power cost for you of $1683.
If you were to change to a Day/Night tarrif your estimated annual cost drops to $1489. This is an estimated annual saving of $194.
The cost of installing a new meter is normally $85 (it could be more if there are issues with you house wiring for example).
So, on the face of it, it looks like the change would have a payback period of around 6m for you. As I said treat this as indicative as it will depend on things like exactly how much power you use at night versus day etc. Unfortunately, night is specified as 11pm - 7am by Aurora network area which means that you would probably need a night store heater to get the most advantage of the night rates.
If you want to explore this further I would suggest that you call us on 0800 2000 40 and ask for Steve.
September 4th, 2009 at 10:52 amHi Ari
don’t you think its quite stupid for night to start at 11pm? we are in bed and sleep by then. that is just a great example of how we are being disadvantaged in every way possible.
what do u mean night store heater?
September 5th, 2009 at 10:26 pm@Akmal:
While 11pm is quite late for ‘night’ to start you don’t have to be up to be using power at this time.
Historically night rates were set up to encourage people to use power ‘off peak’ for heating water etc. Another way of using power at these times is to use a ‘night store’ heater. I don’t know exactly how they work, but I understand that they use power during the night to heat up a slab of concrete or something. Then during the day this heat can be released. That way you get the benefit of lower night rates while getting the heat when you need it during the day.
Ring around some local appliance stores to see what models are available and how much they cost. You may be able to pick up a special at this time of year.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:37 pmAkmal, if you are thinking outside the square, it’s also possible to arrange for a variety of household appliances to run at night to take advantage of the cheaper night rates. e.g. dehumidifier, clothes dryer, dishwasher, washing machine, breadmaker, etc… Some may have a timer delay setting that lets you specify when they operate, others you may need a 24-hour thingy to plug into the socket that appliance is using. Our family now uses at least half of our electricity at night, even though we have an 11pm cutoff (note: we have gas heating, so it’s half of everything without heating)
September 6th, 2009 at 11:35 amthanks for your responses, but we normally go to bed say at 10pm the latest and i don’t think washing the clothes or drying them or even heating the house after 11pm is very useful. anyway i will try look into some appliances but i just wonder why NOT just make it simple for us to save electricity. like make the night rate at 5 or 6pm thats when the night starts.
September 7th, 2009 at 11:16 amHi Ari,
Can you please explain how often ‘blended’ day/night prices are calculated for each customer? Is it done on a weekly basis or does it change every day based on actual usage? Is there any plan to include day/night usage data in the monthly charts?
Also, my weekend day meter readings have not budged since I was switched to the new meter configuration. Is this an issue or just a delay in getting updated meter readings?
Thanks in advance.
- Shreyas
September 7th, 2009 at 5:11 pm@Akmal:
Unfortunately we are not in control of the definition of night - this is Aurora Networks in Dunedin.
If there were smart meters in Dunedin we could define different time segments, just like we have done in Canterbury by defining a weekend segment that matches network charging. Until then we are stuck with the meters and relays that are already installed.
September 7th, 2009 at 5:24 pm@Shreyas:
Your prices are adjusted every time your account is reviewed. This is normally done once a month.
We do intend to split day and night consumption and show them separately in your charts at some point in the future.
Your meter seems to be an AMS meter. We have not yet received the weekend data from them, but when we do your weekend rebate will be backdated to 24 August.
September 7th, 2009 at 5:29 pmThanks again for your prompt response Ari.
Another quick question, when does night rate actually kick in in Christchurch?
September 7th, 2009 at 6:30 pm@Shreyas:
The night rate runs from 9pm to 7am in the Orion network (Canterbury).
September 7th, 2009 at 6:37 pmI have had a smart meter installed recently in Christchurch. Do all smart meters have day/night rate capability or is a separate meter needed. I didn’t have day/night meters prior to getting the smart meter.
September 8th, 2009 at 12:38 am@Chris:
You definitely won’t need a new meter. If your meter is owned by ARC it may need to be reconfigured (we can do this remotely), and if your meter is an AMS meter there is no change required to the meter.
September 8th, 2009 at 7:39 amWe have a remote meter reader with Contact Energy. If we change to Powershop will we still be charged for this at all?
September 8th, 2009 at 8:28 pm@Sarah:
I am not 100% sure what you are asking, but I’ll try my best to help you.
I assume by ‘remote meter’ you mean you have a smart meter. If you were with Contact when this meter was installed it is likely to be owned by AMS. We already have an agreement with AMS to get meter readings, so there will be no need to change your meter and there will be no cost if you switch to Powershop. The cost of getting your meter read is included in the unit prices you pay for your power.
I hope this answers your question, if not please ask again, or feel free to call our contact centre on 0800 1000 60 (9am-9pm, weekdays).
September 8th, 2009 at 8:47 pmSorry don’t think I made much sense
September 9th, 2009 at 8:42 amThe meter was installed outside (on the house) as otherwise they have to come inside to read it (they call it a remote reader not a smart meter). We are tenants here and it was done prior to us moving in. The previous tenants were with another power company and apparently never used it. When we moved in and connected with Contact we were on the low user rate until they realised we had one of these meters and now they charge us an additional rate to have it here (even though we didn’t put it in and certainly don’t want it as I am home every day). However it costs $130 to uninstall which is apparently the equivalent of 3 years of rental. So I just wanted to check that we wouldn’t be charged this additional rate again.
Hope this makes a bit more sense.
Thanks for your quick answers by the way
Hi Ari,
Can you please explain how the weekend power rebates are credited back to the customers?
How can I check the number of units I was credited for any weekend power I have used since the 24th August?
Thanks again.
- Shreyas.
September 9th, 2009 at 3:58 pmAri
i noticed that prices are increasing on the shop for power even though its the time of the year that they should be decreasing. can you explain why this is? also i have been again contacted by my previous electricity supplier and they have noted that you are charging more than what they are charging now.
can you guarantee that powershop will be the cheapest place to buy power? and if so would you beat the price of your competitors?
September 9th, 2009 at 5:22 pmAkmal,
September 9th, 2009 at 5:59 pmPowershop used to guarantee it would be the cheapest for “typical” customers. It dropped that promise with the site redesign.
http://blog.powershop.co.nz/?p=54#comment-1798
@Sarah:
Thanks, that makes much more sense. I have never personally come across these ‘remote meters’ before, so I put your question to our ops people today. They have confirmed that we can read your meter with no additional costs.
September 9th, 2009 at 9:37 pm@Shreyas:
You will be given your rebate in the form of a credit to your account. This will show up whenever you go to checkout when making a purchase and will also show up as a transaction on your ‘My account’ page.
You will also see your ‘weekend day’ register updating on the meter reading page. You should see the this register incrementing from 29 August (this first Saturday after 21 August).
September 9th, 2009 at 9:44 pm@Akmal:
Hey a few things.
Your prices seem to have been pretty much the same for a while now. I think you did manage to pick up a couple of ’specials’ at cheaper rates though. And, yes, we do expect prices to fall over coming weeks.
I think Contact are blatantly misleading you. We have heard that they have quoted GST exclusive prices in the past to make their prices look better, perhaps that is what they have done to you?
Here is my analysis based on prices I have just taken from their website.
Dunedin, All Day Economy (excluding GST, after prompt payment discount)
Daily Charge: 88.794 c/day
Variable Charge: 16.179 c/kWh
EC Levy: 0.167 c/kWh
So the annual cost for a 9,000 kWh customer:
365*88.794 + 9000*(16.179 + 0.167) = $1795.20 (excl GST)
If you add GST, annual cost = $2019.60
Powershop (from our savings calcuator) = $1683.79
Savings = $335.81
(so our savings calculator is under estimating savings)
In general terms, we are confident that most people will save money with Powershop, but we cannot absolutely guarantee this in all cases. However, in your case we are absolutely certain that you will save money compared to Contact. So, as long as you purchase the cheapest Everyday product (or cheaper specials) I am prepared to guarantee you will make savings, and if you don’t we will refund you the difference.
September 9th, 2009 at 10:06 pm@Felix:
I have responded to your concerns about the pricing commitment over here: http://blog.powershop.co.nz/?p=54#comment-1819
September 9th, 2009 at 10:27 pmHi Powershop,
4 questions and 1 request:
Is it true that all 11,276,870 of Powershop’s shares are owned by Meridian?
Does that mean that you are controlled by Meridian rather than ‘backed’ by them?
And isn’t Merdian owned by the Government?
I note that Powershop have just struck a deal with Orion for a 20% weekend discount for ChCh householders.
Isn’t Orion 100% owned by ChCh City Council and Selwyn District Council?
Could you pass on to your bosses at Merdian that ‘the peope’ of ChCh would be really feel enpowered if Merdian listened to their shareholders/customers and passed on the same 20% discount to all of their customers, especially those who don’t have the ability or means to purchase their electricity over the internet - the elderly.
Its just that I get the feeling if Merdian don’t, then they may find out how empowered people already are - the hard way.
September 9th, 2009 at 10:57 pm@Cameron:
Yes, Powershop is a wholly owned subsidiary company of Meridian. However, we have own Board, including an independent Chairman and operationally we are quite independent.
Powershop has not ’struck a deal’ with Orion, per se. Orion have a (largely) standard agreement that they enter with all retailers who want to operate on their network.
Yes, Orion is 100% owned by the Christchuch City Council.
I have no influence over what Meridian offer their customers, but what I can say is that one of the reasons that Meridian invested in Powershop is to innovate in the retail market - which in this case is exactly what we have done. Not that I am trying to defend Meridian’s actions (or lack of them) it is much more difficult for the larger existing retailers to innovate in the way that Powershop has - we have been purpose built to be nimble and take advantage of opportunities quickly.
Powershop would love to be able to service customers who don’t have internet access, but this would just add costs. However, it is possible for family and friends to manage accounts for eldery parents/grandparents using Powershop to access our savings.
At Powershop we encourage people to hunt out the best deal for themselves, and to excercise their buying power. The more people get to understand how easy it is to switch the better. The ‘best deal’ for customers won’t always mean the cheapest of course, other factors such as service are also relevant. We pride ourselves on the information that we provide our customers, and of course the savings, but as you point out, if you don’t have regular access to the internet then we are probably not the best option.
September 9th, 2009 at 11:18 pmThanks for that Ari, we will be switching over to you today
September 10th, 2009 at 7:41 amAlso just wanted to say that I think its great that you have this ask the crew part to the website, makes it much easier to ask questions when you can see what others have asked as well as how quickly they are answered rather than sending off an email and never knowing if a reply will come.
Thanks again.
@Sarah:
Excellent, and thanks for the feedback.
September 10th, 2009 at 7:50 am@Ari
Thank you for your prompt response as always. I assume that the weekend usage credits are applied on the account review day?
It’d be great if all of the useful information posted on this blog be included in the FAQ as well, that’s the first place potential customers would tend to look. I’ve had a number of friends and colleagues who want more information on Powershop and it’d be great if I could simply point them to the FAQ page.
September 10th, 2009 at 10:26 amJust a remark. I signed up this afternoon. However, I have two meters (that is 2 ICPs) as my house used to be 2 flats. There was no provision for this situation, so I had to sign up using 2 different e-mail addresses. Not the most convenient I must say. Anyway, just a small quible.
September 10th, 2009 at 3:59 pm@Michael:
Sorry about that. At the moment we are set up for one ICP per account. We do intend to develop a ‘multi-property’ solution where more than one ICP can be loaded against an account - this would also help you. I cannot give you an expected timeframe on this though.
September 10th, 2009 at 4:25 pmAri… a while ago, in response to queries on the blog, Powershop made it so you could see the pricing breakdown for individual products for the respective Day and Night rates. With the recent update, this seems to have disappeared.
Was that intentional? If so, is there some other way we can access this information? For example, I just had an account review take place and my prices remained identical afterwards. Unless my day/night usage % remained identical, then I would have expected prices to have either changed up or down depending on the change in my night usage. But as it stands now, there doesn’t seem to be a way on the website or my account to tell what rate (and night %) I’m being charged for.
September 10th, 2009 at 5:04 pmAri
thank you once again for your prompt responses and also your guarantee is reassuring,
i was wondering is it possible to buy shares in powershop at all? it would be great if it would then the people get a little say rather than a big power company that has control over you.
September 10th, 2009 at 8:57 pmoh and when you going to have the promotion of getting a mate to join and get a bonus? hehhehe i am waiting for that then use my marketing skills to recruit on your behalf
September 10th, 2009 at 9:00 pm@Akmal:
No problem.
As much as I would like to sell shares in Powershop (and own a few) it is not mine to sell unfortunately.
We will definitely be reviving the friend-get-friend programme again soon. How many new customers are you going to bring us? Are you planning on earning yourself a lifetime of free power?
September 10th, 2009 at 9:07 pmHi Ari
September 10th, 2009 at 11:10 pmI’m looking into the day/night meter:
I measured our power use as 40% night 60% day.
Could you please give me an estimate of what would our price be for the Standard Power value pack special if we switch to day/night?
We also have to pay a $85 fee to change?
Ari
that would just awsome to have alife time of free power but i hope there be No expiry date on it though ahha.
anyway it be nice if we could have had the chance to buy some shares in powershop, may be you can tell Meridian to sell some.
September 11th, 2009 at 3:09 pmAri,
I’d be interested to hear what you think about the One Bill service - http://www.onebill.co.nz
They are charging people to moniter which tarrif / supplier is the cheapest in your region each month and then, with your permission, switch you automatically. I see it as a rather impractical solution to high power prices.
They also mention powershop:
“PowerShop was established by Meridian Energy to create a new way for consumers to purchase electricity. PowerShow don’t currently offer electricity from any of the large suppliers, and the small ‘independant’ suppliers they do offer were mostly set up on behalf of Meridian to support their new service.”
On BEHALF on meridian? Is that entirely true?
September 13th, 2009 at 10:39 am@Jared:
First up, the independent suppliers on Powershop are just that, independent. There is no truth in the statement that they have been set up on behalf of Meridian. As you will see we have just added another supplier - AirShed, and we are working with a number of others. It is true that these suppliers probably wouldn’t be retailing electricity if it weren’t for Powershop. We view this is a good thing - we have removed some of the barriers to entry. But they certainly aren’t there on behalf of Meridian.
As to onebill.co.nz - I agree this is a bit impractical. The industry switching process is pretty inefficient, which is why we have tried to avoid it all together with Powershop, and sell energy in blocks. I also think their business model is a bit light. I am the first to agree that electricity tariffs are complicated (to the detriment of consumers), but there is nothing they are doing that a customer can’t do through powerswitch. I think their claims of $500/year savings (if you change tarrif - which will involve a meter change and additional cost) are at the extreme end of savings. I would suggest that in some areas customers will struggle to save the $50/year cost of the service. Despite their caveats, it is interesting to note also that are not referring customers to Powershop as we are significantly cheaper in some areas.
September 13th, 2009 at 3:13 pm“there is nothing they are doing that a customer can’t do through powerswitch”
September 14th, 2009 at 8:30 amJust as I thought. Oh well, there is a market for everything these days… Funny that they claim to be on the comsumers’ side, since Consumer org does not charge for the Powerswitch service. Enough said
Superimposed on my page http://blog.powershop.co.nz/ in large red font is the following message:
” Movie (436) is incompatible with sifr.js (419). Use movie of 419.”
Does this indicate a problem on my end or on your end ?
September 14th, 2009 at 8:41 am@Peter:
Yeah, I had the same problem myself. We think it’s a caching problem - a page refresh fixed it for me.
I have flicked it to our developers to have a quick look at too.
September 14th, 2009 at 9:03 amThanks Ari. Page refresh made it go away for me too.
September 14th, 2009 at 10:31 amHi Ari,
Someone was going to call me about my meter readings looking odd.
Maybe they forgot … what number can i use to call them?
Thanks
September 14th, 2009 at 11:29 am@Aaron:
Sorry about that, I know that someone was looking into this for you. I have asked Jim to give you a call, or you could phone 0800.462.668.
September 14th, 2009 at 1:52 pmHi Ari,
September 14th, 2009 at 1:58 pmCan you look into my question above please?
I also have a question above, re: day/night power rates and whether you are going to make it so we can again see the breakdown in prices between the two registers.
September 14th, 2009 at 2:14 pm@Felix:
Sure, sorry I missed that one.
As it happens our savings calculator assumes a 60:40 day:night ratio, so I can just use these results. Your annual consumption looks to be around 10,500 kWh. So, currently on your ‘All inclusive’ tariff you could expect to pay $2299 pa, if you change to an ‘Anytime & Night’ this drops to $2172, a saving of $127 pa.
The install cost should be around $85 (subject to no issues with your wiring). So on the face of it, it looks like savings can be made. There is a potential complication to the analysis though. We are currently exploring smart meter options for Auckland, and it may be that you are better holding off for that.
If you want to explore options any further I suggest that you call us on 0800.462.668.
September 14th, 2009 at 2:38 pm@Andrew:
This information is available now :). If you click on any ‘Everyday’ product tile, you will see a (?) above-right of the unit price (in the green box). If you click the (?) a pop-up box will appear with your usage and prices broken down into day/night.
September 14th, 2009 at 2:42 pmThanks, do you have a timetable when you can announce info on smart meters?
September 14th, 2009 at 3:04 pmThanks, Ari. That is a much tidier and out of the way method to display this information. Thumbs up!
September 14th, 2009 at 3:08 pm@Felix:
Unfortunately not. We are exploring options at this stage, and implementation timeframes will depend on who/what options we end up going with.
September 14th, 2009 at 3:21 pm@Andrew:
Thanks. I guess we should have told people where it went.
September 14th, 2009 at 3:32 pmHi Ari,
Sorry where is the ?, or do I not see it because of my plan? I thought my plan had been changed to allow the weekend discount?
Thanks
September 14th, 2009 at 4:23 pm@Warwick:
Your plan changeover will be completed when we get the information we need from AMS (your weekend rebate will be back-dated to 24 August). Once this changeover has been done the (?) will appear,
September 14th, 2009 at 4:27 pmAri
i recently read an article on ODT in dunedin which you said only 300 or so people has so far signed up to powershop. i do agree that its NOT that money but one the main reasons may be is there IS NO MARKETING in Dunedin for powershop, i know of so many people that have not even heard of the company name.
so i would like to propose to you to get a a marketing team down here and promote the shop and trust me people will join up in droves. so far i have been experiencing good customer service and the prices have been clear and concise. even though not as cheap as i hoped but still great customer service.
so yeah again i think you should start working on marketing the shope and having a clean target market. you might want to get some students to do some sales work for you.
September 14th, 2009 at 8:17 pm@Akmal:
Thanks for the feedback and the suggestions. We have done some marketing in Dunedin, but clearly not in the right places. We do have plans for a bit more of a presence in the near future, and generating word of mouth is also important.
We are finding though that many people KNOW they can save money, KNOW they can get a better service, yet for some reason they never quite get around to switching - it is this inertia that we need to break down. I don’t think marketing alone can do that.
September 14th, 2009 at 9:14 pmI read Consumer, so I know day/night plans exist, but I never thought of changing.
In the many articles about electricity and saving money, “getting a day/night meter” was never mentioned!
I would still be in the dark if not for this blog. Isn’t Powershop cool?
Powershop should actively promote day/night meter to its customers.
September 15th, 2009 at 11:47 am@Felix:
Thanks. We’ll have a think about whether/how to promote day/night meter changes. There is obviously a cost of installation, and depending on customers usage patterns and the day/night pricing differentials (which are different in different network areas) a day/night meter may not always be the best option.
Our preference would be to install smart meters where possible because that gives us flexibility to change a customers tariff to the option that best suits them.
September 15th, 2009 at 12:51 pmTo continue Akmal’s conversation about a month ago regarding validity dates of power (I am still a little confused)…
September 18th, 2009 at 4:21 pmAs expiry dates extend to the account reviews either side of the relevant month, that would mean power that says it is valid for a single month is, in reality, is valid for approximately two months. Correct?
eg. November 700 units can be claimed after my account review around 7th October, and if my usage stays low, will also be valid until the review around the 7th of December? Correct? Or is it just one or the other…
(I’m trying to figure out whether the Nov 700 pack is OK for me to buy…)
@Jared:
Sorry, we do still need to simplify this. But you are correct, the single month November pack is valid for approximately 2 months, in your case from 7 October to 7 December (give or take a couple of days, depending on your meter reading cycle).
September 18th, 2009 at 4:49 pmAri
yeah i am confused as well as i am NOT sure if the 700 pack for November is for me as it says use by November but its NOT true right? so mine would be december too?
September 18th, 2009 at 8:57 pm@Akmal:
Assuming monthly account reviews the ‘November’ product can be consumed over a period of 2 months (give or take a couple of days).
The safest way to think about it is “It is DEFINITELY valid for consumption in November.”
It will also be valid for consumption from your last account review in October, however, there is always a possibility that your account could be reviewed on the last day in October.
Similarly, it will also be valid for consumption in December up until your first account review, but this could of course occur on the 1st day.
Meter readings (which normally trigger account reviews) typically occur every 4 weeks, but are subject to change, if for example there is a public holiday, or the meter reader gets a flat tyre and the round is delayed. Or the meter reading round your are on may change.
So our advice is to treat a November pack as just that, a November pack. There is a ‘grace period’ either side, but you are taking some risk if you rely being able to consume your power in this period, because the exact duration is subject to change.
September 18th, 2009 at 10:15 pm@Akmal
Customer Services should be able to tell you when meter readings are generally scheduled for you (they told me mine were around the 7th of each month). In my 4 years of being an electricity customer I have never had my billing cycle change on me except for when I change supplier. But I heed Ari’s warning above especially since unforeseen circumstances could affect it. I’m not sure if I will buy this pack now, since I am not sure how much my consumption will drop and the green in the power organisor will grow as this happens.
@Ari
September 19th, 2009 at 12:34 amCould it be possibile to manually activate a powerpack if the previous months account review has passed? Thus showing the ‘green’ in the power organisor slide back to the ‘real’ validity date. Maybe even colour code the days that are covered by powerpacks showing the units that expire sooner will get claimed first…
WOAH the deal for dunedin was awsome but i missed out
ahahah man they went so fast. lol that is why i think powershop ROCKS so far 
September 19th, 2009 at 2:40 pm@Jared:
We ‘activate’ powerpacks on the first day of their ‘notional’ validity period (eg. a November pack is activated on 1 November). The reason we do this is that we need to allow for the possibility of an account review on the last day of the month prior. As you note, meter readings are normally conducted about that same time each month, but we do need to allow for exceptions (eg. if you were scheduled for a reading on 1 November, but this was actually done a day earlier on 31 October - if we implemented your suggestion we would have shown your November powerpack as active from 1 October, when in fact because of the 31 October account review it wasn’t actually available).
I know this all a bit confusing. The simplest thing to do is treat the dates shown in powerpacks as the actual validity dates, and treat the grace period as a bonus.
September 19th, 2009 at 9:19 pm@Akmal:
Yeah, looks like you have to be up early in Dunedin. Keep an eye out for the Power Burglar though, he’ll be back soon enough
September 19th, 2009 at 9:20 pmAri, overall I hear what your saying, but my suggestion is this:
September 20th, 2009 at 5:16 amFor example, the November pack is shown to start on the 1st. Then, after the october account review a customer can manually activate it (via a check box or something), THEN the green bars slide back and the balance updates… If my next read happened to be scheduled on the 1st, and actually happens on the 31st perhaps the early validation could make it an exception (because the cycle change really wouldn’t happen that often… right?) - lol i’m not trying to tell how to run the business
And I’m not meaning to re-write the rules either, but thats the suggestion. At the end of the day, it would all be reconciled at the next account review.
It might be a problem, especially if the November pack is still available for purchase next month, I would be able to get the cheaper rate and use it straight away - well, it’s not a problem for me but you get the picture
Another question altogether, I read earlier there are some new reports in the pipeline and some are shown on the new website… Will we be able to see them soon?
Geez, I just read the above back to myself, hope it all makes sense - I’m doing the graveyard shifts and, apparently, speeching all over the place!
September 20th, 2009 at 5:19 am@Jared:
Yep, I managed to decipher you graveyard shift posting
What you describe is obviously possible. However, it has always been our philosophy to minimise the risk that customers purchase more power than they need - a few percent savings on a bulk pack has no value if you end up with power expired. Accordingly, our preference is to provide customers with ‘conservative’ advice around the use of Powerpacks. We have absolutely no problem with people ’sailing closer to the wind’ and using the reconciliation rules/process to their advantage, but we want them to understand the risk they are taking. And we certainly don’t want to give them advice that in the final analysis turned out to be incorrect.
I am not sure whether you have thought about it in your early morning musings, but once you have purchased power it does not actually matter how much you paid for them, all units have the same value - they are 1kWh each, so it doesn’t actually matter what order they are used. This is why we use the earliest expiry first - this minimises the risk that any expire. Also, you can see the validity of units you have purchased in the ‘Products purchased’ report (you have probably already seen this).
As for the new reports, we have new weekly/monthy emails under development, these are probably still a few weeks away yet and we one new carbon report also in the pipeline.
September 20th, 2009 at 10:51 amUnderstood. Perhaps I over thought it due to too much caffine, but due to Akmals and my confusion about the validity dates, I was trying to think of a way (through manual activation) we could be certian the November 700 units would be used before they expire… I may have complicated it a bit - it is simplier to keep it the way it is.
September 21st, 2009 at 2:38 amNOW, a question about reports, what assumptions are made in order to come up with the provisional usage values we see? Does it using the ‘typical usage’ information? Does provisional usage become more likely to be accurate as our account history builds?
Ari,
Not sure where all the comments go, I tend to just follow the last RSS thread but now can’t find my last question/ answer going in via the website. So (from memory
Night rate; I get the “simple” philosophy BUT
First, as i understand it, each customer gets their very own personalised weighted average price offer, how is that simple?
Then how does (eg: Meridian/ Flower power) quote a future price based on an hsitorical split and what happens when the actual split up turns out to be different.
1. I can’t see how this will give the lowest price (the supplier has to price risk into their offer).
2. If I load up my night consumption I don’t get any benefit untill the history gets priced into the future offer. So behaviour change benefits the power company before me. The reverse is true too; see point 1.
3. If there is a true up this will NOT be simple to understand (I promise
4. If no true up then it is an inefficient price signal both for the supplier and the purchaser.
So two or three (or more?) rates fixed and quoted in advance is actually far more efficient and simple …
Thanks.
September 21st, 2009 at 1:48 pmI thought about this some more
Is the quoted single rate an estimate of the future weighted average prices based on the historical splits with the actual single rate applied being an outcome of the actual split up with the actual rates quoted (but hidden under (?))
How simple is that statement?
September 21st, 2009 at 2:10 pm@Jared:
The ‘provisional’ data is based on your current estimated daily consumption (the same number you would see if you logged in). So it reflects your recent consumption. If you update your meter reading these provisional values will also be updated.
September 21st, 2009 at 2:19 pmAri, I did notice that was the case when the feature was first implemented. However, going into the following months, the ‘provisional figures’ on the report appear at the beginning of the month, then change when the account is reviewed, or when my pricing changes - they do not change whenever my reading is updated, or when I purchase products at a cheaper rate… You may notice on my account my provisional usage for september is 1020, which does not reflect my estimated usage.
September 21st, 2009 at 2:41 pm@Aaron:
I agree that analysis of the pricing is complex, and indeed in no way simple
But then electricity pricing is inherently complex.
The simplicity we are aiming for is that you can look at all products on a like-for-like basis. You can buy the cheapest and know it is the cheapest, or you can buy green and know exactly how much more you are paying for it. It is a nightmare to compare tariffs across traditional retailers, to the extent that most people don’t bother. That is exactly why most people are not on the cheapest option now.
The other thing we are trying to avoid is for customers having to buy different power for different time periods. Most people don’t want to think about it too much.
The upshot is we are trying to make Powershop simple for customers to use, this is not necessarily the same thing as making pricing itself simple
September 21st, 2009 at 2:57 pm@Jared:
Yep, I can see the issue now. I’ll get the development guys to have a look and either fix the report, or confirm what it is showing.
September 21st, 2009 at 3:05 pmSo when I buy the single rate based on an estimated future consumption pattern (easy to compare = good) is that the rate I pay on the future consumption(estimated rate = bad)?
or is waht i pay the actual rates underlying the original estimate times the actual consumption to give an actual single rate based on the previous quoted prices?
If its the first one, it maybe marginally simpler but seems a lot worse.
September 21st, 2009 at 3:53 pm@Aaron:
Think of it this way, the cost of delivering power to your property comprises some fixed costs (primarily network charges, but also meter lease and reading) and variable costs (primarily energy).
The blending mechanism is designed to ensure that we don’t over or under recover the fixed component of cost. While me may not also estimate your day/night split perfectly for any particular period of time, in the medium term we will be very close, and any unders and overs will come out in the wash. Our current estimates rely on your historic patterns, and we are continually refining our forecast methodology to improve its accuracy and more closer reflect individual customers usage throughout the year.
The variable energy component is really what you are locking in by purchasing powerpacks, and this will still be achieved even if our day/night apportionment isn’t perfect.
September 21st, 2009 at 5:40 pmThats cool. I was thinking that it isn’t necessarily a bad thing to show a provisional value based on ‘typical’ consumption in my area. My guess is that it means if my actual usage is significantly less than this provisional value, at the next pricing review my prices will shift closer to the capped rate of an 8000 unit/pa customer - as shown on the shop preview page on the website… correct?
September 21st, 2009 at 9:25 pm@Jared:
I guess the problem with showing ‘typical customer’ consumption is that smaller users may over purchase.
And yes, correct the closer your consumption is to typical, the closer your prices will be to the 8,000 kWh pa customer (as shown in the shop preview pages).
September 21st, 2009 at 9:41 pmThat could be a problem.
September 22nd, 2009 at 2:20 amThe way I see the provisional values at the moment are:
- The average unit price of 20.69 is taking into account what I already paid for up until the review on the 7th, but also accounts for Octobers spring power units to be claimed this month and the remaining of septembers balance to be purchased via the cheapest available everyday product (standard power’s 20.78 rate). Since I have been buying weekly specials, this should be cheaper in reality. Perhaps it could be smarter by updating as a customer puchases their power…? (The Steal a deal pack would also affect this)
- The monthly power use value of 1020 is probably derived from where I have been deemed to sit relative to an ‘average’ customer. It is quite high relative to my actual usage because the only history it could be based on is my very high power use during winter…
I was very impressed with feature when it first appeared (i think back in July), it seemed to be updating when I updated readings etc - and I think the power use value WAS calculated from the 30-day rolling average ie. the blue line on the daily consumption graph.
These days it only seems to update at review time, that’s the reason I bring it up.
Anyway, onwards with the night
@Jared:
Thanks for the additional info, we’ll have a look into it for you. It may be that your provisional values are being biased by the high estimated usage. Anyway, we’ll keep you posted.
September 22nd, 2009 at 8:44 amAri
what you mean by weekly specials? when do they come up?
i only buy standard power and have not seen any specials that are not big amount of units.
September 24th, 2009 at 8:16 pmHi - Our hot water cylinder - is it cheapest to leave it on all day or turn off during the day and jost heat the water from cold a few hours before we need it
Thanks
September 24th, 2009 at 9:19 pm@Akmal:
by weekly specials I mean the Standard Power ‘Value Packs’ - currently priced at $49.95. These are designed to be around one week’s worth of power use for an average customer, and are limited to 1 pack per week, per customer. They are normally (although not always) one of the cheaper products.
September 25th, 2009 at 11:38 amI have a question about Meridian, Green Power Co and Airshed. From what I see, they all provide a unit of carbon neutral electricity. What exactly am I getting for paying 5% or 10% extra?
September 25th, 2009 at 12:35 pm@Felix:
Good question.
First up, I must confess to not being a climate change, or carbon trading expert, however, I will try and answer the question here (we will also be providing more comprehensive information over coming weeks).
Meridian products are carbon neutral by virtue of the fact that Meridian produces all of its electricity using renewable energy sources, and has their sales certified under the carboNZero(tm) regime.
However, the simple reality is that whether or not a customer purchases Meridian products (or indeed directly from Meridian) won’t change the amount of carbon emissions of the power system (refer my ealrier blog post ‘Where does my power come from?’ - http://blog.powershop.co.nz/?p=69).
If you actually want to help fight climate change by offsetting the carbon emissions associated with your electricity consumption you can purchase carbon offsets with your electricity purchases. This is where the different products fit in. You can choose which form of offset you want to purchase. The Green Power Company purchases voluntary carbon units and ‘retires’ these on the TZ1 Registry. Airshed Energy uses Gold Standard offsets (supported by Green Peace and WWF). Airshed Energy For Business uses the same Gold Standard offsets, but these are approved by the carboNZero(tm) programme. See their respective product descriptions for further detail.
Essentially, we are offering a range of options for customers wanting to help fight climate change. As a customer it is up to you to choose which mechanisms you prefer and make your purchase decisions accordingly. We like to think we have a ‘green’ option for all budgets
September 25th, 2009 at 1:02 pmSo essentially they are certified by different organizations. But are the more expensive units really better for the planet?
September 25th, 2009 at 2:02 pm@Felix:
Kind of, but I think that this might be an over-simplification. I have invited Meridian, Power Kiwi and Airshed to respond to your question directly.
September 25th, 2009 at 2:20 pmHi Felix. I’m Todd from AIRSHED.
There are different environmental benefits associated with the different “green” offerings on Powershop. We’ll let the other providers explain the benefits of their products.
In terms of our products - we use only Gold Standard carbon offsets. These offsets are widely regarded as the “highest quality” carbon offset on the market.
Gold Standard projects use only renewable energy and energy efficiency technologies. This way they avoid some of the uncertainties associated with, for example, sequestering carbon by growing trees (the trees may die in the future – but once a wind farm has delivered an emission reduction, it remains delivered).
Gold Standard offsets are also independently validated and verified and comply with strict additionality criteria – ensuring that the emission reductions from these projects were not going to happen anyway. (You don’t want to spend your money on an emission reduction that was already going to happen!)
And Gold Standard projects must deliver local sustainable development benefits. So part of the extra money you pay for our products goes to help local communities in developing countries.
In short, we think that our products give you the greatest certainty that the money you’re paying, really does go to help the planet.
Finally, AIRSHED retires Gold Standard offsets on the Markit registry (formerly TZ1) for AIRSHED Energy For Business customers. This means that these offsets are “portable” and can be used in our customers’ carbon certification programmes (like the carboNZero programme). No one else does this on Powershop.
Hope this helps.
September 25th, 2009 at 5:40 pm@Todd:
Thanks for the explanation.
September 25th, 2009 at 5:44 pmHi Felix - Lance here from PowerKiwi. We sell both GreenPower and TreePower on Powershop.
Todd and Ari have written about this pretty well. There are two main types of carbon credits - VCS and Gold Standard. GreenPower uses the VCS credits, which are more popular, and cheaper, but to be fair the jury is still out as to which will dominate as the global standard. We think it is good to have a choice, and that both standards are reputable ways to guarantee that your money is being spent wisely to mitigate your carbon footprint.
It is still early days for consumer focussed carbon offsets, and we all will be monitoring how the market matures and adjusting accordingly.
We also offer TreePower, which drives the planting of trees. This has a dual effect - helping local communities in the countries that most need it (by slowing erosion, making land more usable/productive and employing locals) and having a mitigating effect of your carbon use. We do not measure that effect (it is too hard) and so do not recommend TreePower if you want to measure and offset your own emissions.
Thanks for the question - I hope the collective answers help.
Lance
September 26th, 2009 at 1:23 am@Lance:
Thanks for overcoming the technical challenges of internet access in Mozambique and providing your input.
September 26th, 2009 at 6:46 am@ FELIX
to be really honest you are wasting your money and making no change at all.
for climate change to really change the whole governments of the world needs to change their attitude. and some companies and people prey on consumers like yourself making you believe that you are making a change but in fact there is NONE.
so its best not to let them prey on you and lobby the government to do more as a nation. which what they are doing by increasing the fuel prices at beginning of October. which again is another means for them to gain more tax money and no affect on environment at all.
if you do more research you would come to conclusion that this global warming and climate change is all a tool that some companies and governments use to make more MONEY>
September 26th, 2009 at 4:12 pm@Akmal:
… there is of course another school of thought that the cumulative effect of a number of small actions by individuals will make a material contribution to fighting climate change.
In any event, Powershop offers a range of options for anyone wishing to offset all or part of the emissions associated with their electricity use. But if people do not believe the additional cost will help they do not have to buy the ‘green’ products.
September 26th, 2009 at 6:19 pmAri
but i know and and educated individual would know that statement is NOT true. and we are NOT even sure of how to enforce the companies that say that they are helping with emissions. i thinks its all a propaganda tool for companies to raise costs and prey on people’s weaknesses.
i hope that people do their research before buying something from someone that don’t exists.
September 27th, 2009 at 3:54 amAnd Ari
i am still waiting for a credible power company to join this shop and sell their products? wonder why its taking so long? is it coz you don;t want them to sell their product cheaper rate than yours so hence they getting all the consumers.
see this what that does not make sense to me. any business owner would stop a similar product of a competitor being sold at his shop, as it will damage his business. so is that what powershop is really doing?
i contacted an independent provider and asked them about selling their power through here, they replied as ” powershop has rules and regulations that stops us from competing with their power”
September 27th, 2009 at 3:59 am@Akmal:
You are entitled to your views, but I think you are being a bit harsh to be honest. I don’t disagree that there will be plenty of people/companies on a ‘get rich quick’ campaign around climate change. But I am confident that Powershop suppliers are genuine and are offering carbon offsets with their products because they believe it is the right thing to do. And it is not mandatory for customers to buy these products, it is a choice they have. I do agree though that people should do their research.
In relation to other suppliers - when you say ‘credible’, I assume you mean the existing generator-retailers (that you have said on many occasions that you neither like nor trust)?
Our door is always open to these companies, and any other company wishing to sell through Powershop. Powershop is already ‘cheapest in market’ for most customers, but we would actually be happy for a cheaper supplier to come on board and give further savings to our customers. I know this seems unusual to you, but the rationale is that we are a “shop” - we make a small margin on all sales (whether or not they are our products), having even cheaper products obviously makes Powershop more appealing to electricity consumers and would result in more business for us.
We do not have ‘rules and regulations’ for independent providers as such, but because of the way the market operates we do need contracts that cover credit risk and other provisions that relate to things such as the Commerce Act and Fair Trading Act, we have no intention of preventing suppliers from coming on board but we do have contractual provisions that must be met - there is nothing unusual in this. Try selling a new product through a supermarket - meeting their requirements would be a lot more difficult than meeting ours.
We have also been approached by a couple of people wanting to use the Powershop platform in slightly different ways (rather than come on board as a supplier) too. While we are not averse to this, it is not a priority for us right now - we are a low cost operation and need to be sure we are spending any development effort on initiatives that have immediate benefits to both our customers and ourselves.
September 27th, 2009 at 9:26 amGiven the buy-back offers that Contact and Mercury have been making, apparently targeting powershop customers, and the misleading info that they are trying to spread - they are obviously scared of the idea of a transparent market. So I reckon it will probably take a while (and a lot more powershop customers) for the other major retailers to open up to the idea…
September 27th, 2009 at 10:12 amIn the meantime, I am looking forward to an increasing number of choices coming from new players in the market
@Emma:
To be honest I don’t know the definitive answer to this. I would expect that heating the water before you need it will result in more heat escaping. I will see if I can find out for sure.
September 27th, 2009 at 9:10 pm@Jared:
Yep, that’s pretty much where our thinking has go to as well.
September 27th, 2009 at 9:11 pmHi Felix and anyone else following the discussion on carbon neutrality, and Powershop.
Anna here from Meridian. I’ve added a bit more background on Meridian’s activity, the link to Airshed; and the carboNZero (cert TM) status of all “Meridian” products in Powershop. I hope it’s of some use.
SOME BACKGROUND
Meridian designed the Te Apiti wind farm near Ashurst back in 2002. Though it wasn’t economic in its own right at the time, the project was recognised by the NZ Government and international agency DNV as being “additional”, by contributing renewable energy to NZ’s generation mix, it helped to reduce emissions beyond business as usual. On that basis, the Te Apiti project was registered by the Gold Standard, which issued credits and created the revenue stream needed for the project to proceed. Since Te Apiti, Meridian’s continued to develop expertise in wind, with a number of wind farms under construction/completed here in NZ and in Australia. These represent increased investment, and capacity in renewable generation, and displaced fossil fuel emissions – which we think is a positive and active response to climate change.
LINK TO AIRSHED
Airshed purchased some of Meridian’s Te Apiti credits on TradeMe in 2007. These credits are currently being sold as part of Airshed’s electricity offer in Powershop, as direct offsets against the volume of electricity purchased. Small world!
MERIDIAN ELECTRICITY
We’re often asked what carbon neutrality means in relation to electricity supply. Meridian takes a lifecycle approach to measuring, managing and offsetting all the emissions associated with generating and retailing electricity. For example, our inventories include the emissions embodied in manufacturing and transporting wind turbines to site in NZ, diesel used in backup generators at our power plants, transmission/line losses in distributing electricity around NZ, and the electricity used in our own offices. Meridian electricity’s been certified against the carboNZero standard annually since February 2007, and is also recognised by the “Green Carbon” and “Offset the Rest” programmes. Our carboNZero certification applies to all electricity supplied to all Meridian retail customers, and is not sold at any additional cost. Retail customers purchasing electricity from us, or consuming “Meridian” products via Powershop can be assured we have taken a robust life-cycle approach to emissions management. We’ve retired the credits needed to offset the emissions across our whole product life cycle, saving our customers the hassle of registry transactions.
I hope the above’s of some use or interest! Climate change is a broad, evolving area, which will no doubt continue to be discussed and debated at length as next steps are determined. Thanks for your interest.
September 28th, 2009 at 2:16 pm@Anna:
Thanks for your response.
@Felix:
I trust the responses from Todd, Lance and Anna answer your original question. If not, feel free to ask further questions, and I will make sure they are followed up.
September 28th, 2009 at 9:28 pmhere we go again Meridian trying to show who is the boss.
I dislike the fact Meridian to own this company but i am trying to live with it. but by seeing them contributing to discussions on here it just an insult. it shows that no matter what still Meridian controls this and i can assure you if it wasn;t for a big company that overcharge customers any one else owned powershop thousands would have joined.
the simple questions people ask is” why would people join this where they can join meridian directly? as they believe if they want lower prices they should be doing to their own customers and not over charging them Millions if not billions of dollars.
September 29th, 2009 at 10:29 pm@Akmal:
I invited Meridian to provide comments on their Carbon Zero products in response to Felix’s question. I also asked Airshed and PowerKiwi to comment on their products, which Todd and Lance have done. I did this simply because all three understand their products much more than I do.
You have raised your dislike of Meridian in the past. One of the benefits of Powershop is that you don’t have to buy their products - exercising your choice is literally a mouse-click away.
In relation to prices on Powershop versus buying directly from Meridian, I reiterate that Powershop is independent and by being online only we have much lower costs than Meridian, which translate into savings for customers.
September 29th, 2009 at 10:40 pmThank you for all the answers.
September 30th, 2009 at 4:02 pmAri
i think all of us dislike major power companies overcharging us by Billions of dollars. wouldn’t any descent person??
anyway have to live with it so far but it would have been so good if powershop was NOT owned by Meridian.
i have a few questions. can some one get say 5 properties powers in one account? say for example my friend own 5 rental properties and would like to join. could he get all properties at one account?
and also when is the “introduce a mate and get credit comes to action”??
September 30th, 2009 at 6:52 pm@Akmal:
Yeah, I guess nobody likes feeling that they are being ripped off.
At present it is not possible to set up more than one property per ‘account’ - we do intend to do this, but to do it properly is not a trivial exercise. What we have done for other customers is set them up with 1 Gmail account per property and have all messages forwarded to a single email address. Unfortunately, you would then need to log in separately for each property, so 5 or so properties is about the limit of workability of this option.
We are currently finalising the structure of our next ‘Friend-get-friend’ campaign and this will kick off in the next week or two.
September 30th, 2009 at 9:23 pmdon;t you think it would be allot easier if that person could access all the properties with one account since he owns them and pays for power.
i think it would be a really time consuming to log in every property, where if you could get all in one account or something like that.
October 1st, 2009 at 4:45 pm@Akmal:
Agree completely. As I said, we do intend to develop a multi-site system, but we don’t have it in place yet. We want to canvass customer needs before we build it to. For example, what aggregated reporting would business owners like to see? How important is the ability to buy specials, or is set-and-forget a better option? etc etc. If you have any thoughts on what you would like to see, feel free to send them through.
October 1st, 2009 at 4:51 pmHi Ari
The steal a deals go so fast, are they likely to be restocked any time soon? - or will it disappear for a month or so again
October 15th, 2009 at 11:37 amI also just found a bug in your site by mistake I put a comma in my email address instead of telling me it was an invalid email it simply took me to a page not found error, everything worked fine once I replaced the , with a .
October 15th, 2009 at 11:39 am@Warwick:
We are working on a revised schedule to get these out more frequently. We sometimes give advance warning on our Facebook page and on our Twitter page. Follow us on either of these to improve your chances!
October 15th, 2009 at 1:04 pm@Warwick:
Thanks, where was it that you put your email address? I can’t find the bug.
October 15th, 2009 at 1:06 pm@Warwick:
PS: we have just put some more ’steal a deal’ packs out in Christchurch - get in quick!
October 15th, 2009 at 1:06 pmblooming heck, I just got back to my desk and they are gone already.
October 15th, 2009 at 2:42 pmto make the fault show “accidentally” enter the email address as firstname.lastname@gmail,com that’s a comma in the address by accident
October 15th, 2009 at 2:44 pmWarwick on which page do you type the address?
October 15th, 2009 at 3:46 pmwhen posting a reply
October 15th, 2009 at 4:59 pm@Warwick:
oh, on the blog. I thought you meant within Powershop. I’ll get someone to take a look.
October 15th, 2009 at 5:03 pmHi Ari, is it just me, or have your prices gone up around 21% in the last 24hrs?
October 20th, 2009 at 9:15 am@simon what area are you in? mine look about the same
October 20th, 2009 at 12:31 pmAuckland city. Another PS friend has reported the same thing… although in the past hour mine have gone back to what they were. System glitch?
October 20th, 2009 at 12:40 pm@Simon:
Yes, there was a glitch in the Auckland pricing (Vector Network only)from midnight until mid morning. This has now been fixed and we are currently checking our records to find affected customers who have made purchases during this period.
October 20th, 2009 at 2:45 pmIt looks like the glitch has shown on the shop preview page as well - Auckland Central is more expensive than North/West Auckland…
October 21st, 2009 at 7:51 am@Jared:
Thanks for that. You are quite right. The products and pricing page updates once a day and has not been refreshed since we resolved the glitch. We’ll get this updated ASAP.
October 21st, 2009 at 8:29 amAn update on my quest to get a day/night meter.
So after the last post in mid-September, I called up Powershop. We got it sorted out on the phone pretty quickly.
The contractor came in early October. He did not replace any meter but just switched a few wires around. We felt the hot water got slightly not as hot immediately. Power usage dropped 5 kWh/day.(That’s more than $300/year.)
However, with a day/night meter, there should be two sets of figures changing, right? Only one set of numbers were moving on our meters, so I called Powershop again.
The contact center rep promised to find out what was happening. But since it involved talking to their contractor, and their contractor’s contractor, and Metrix, and VirCom, it took quite a while.
Today, the contractor came again. He said that day/night meters are for businesses only and I can’t get one. I immediately called Powershop and got Steve the manager on the phone. Steve and the contractor had a long discussion but the result is that no, day/night meters are not available for my house because it is in the AEPB zone.
The final story is like this:
There are two meters in our meter box. What we have always thought is that one of them is the normal meter, and the other one is the spa pool meter. We removed the spa pool when we moved in, so that meter never moved. Actually, that “spa pool meter” is the night meter. What the contractor did first time was to connect the hot water to the relay, so the hot water is only heated for 8 hours a day. However, there’s a problem with our house wiring, so everything still goes through one meter. We can’t get the day/night rate for the whole house, we can only get it for the hot water part. Steve told me to get an electrician to sort out the wiring, then he would switch us over to the day/night plan.
Powershop waived the meter change fee, which is very nice of them. However, it would be nice if I was told I could only get day/night for hot water earlier.
So my quest still has a bit to go. But if we can get 1c/kWh off our pricing ($100/year) then it should still be worth it.
Electricity is so complicated. X(
October 30th, 2009 at 1:12 pm@Felix:
What a nightmare. Sorry about all that. I actually didn’t realise myself (until now) that night-rate is only available in Vector network load ‘permanently’ fixed to the night meter. This is different to most other network areas where the night rate is available for all night time consumption.
Hopefully we’ll get you sorted soon - thanks for your patience.
… and you’re right - electricity is complicated (unnecessarily).
October 30th, 2009 at 1:37 pmI’m interested to see that my Powershop unit prices seem to be going up rather than coming down as we approach summer months. Does Powershop tailor the pricing to individual accounts based on the individual’s purchase history. I guess what I am skeptical about is that it’s not a true ’supermarket’ experience where everyone who shops in the same store pays the same price. But rather the prices are set individually to give Powershop a targeted annual revenue per account.
November 5th, 2009 at 9:43 am@Wayne:
A few people are asking this question, so I will write a blog post on this topic in the next few days. The short answer to your question though is this:
1. Supplying your electricity essentially has two types of cost - fixed and variable. The fixed costs are those that remain the same irrespective of how much power you use - the biggest component of fixed costs are the lines costs, but there are others such as meter lease, and meter reading. The variable costs are those that are dependent on how much power you use - the main one being the energy itself.
2. Most power companies have a fixed daily charge to recover fixed costs - the net effect of this is that your per unit cost is higher the less you use. Powershop has chosen to simplify our pricing structure and not have daily fixed - this allows you to easily compare the prices between products. However, our pricing is adjusted on a per customer basis to ensure we recover the fixed costs too.
3. The energy component of our prices will trend down over summer as the demand for electricity falls.
4. We do not have a target ‘annual revenue’ per account - our target is meeting our savings commitments to customers.
So in summary, yes, your pricing is individualised based on your consumption, but in reality so are the prices you pay other retailers. Our fully variable prices make it easier to understand your power costs and compared different products.
November 5th, 2009 at 10:44 amAri, I’m not sure but it might be useful to show what our annual usage is estimated to be, as prices are ‘customised’ accordingly…
November 5th, 2009 at 11:36 am@Jared:
Thanks, we’ll look at that.
November 5th, 2009 at 11:41 amAri,
I understand about individualised pricing being based on consumption.
Along with Wayne I am interested to know whether our purchase history ( as distinct from consumption ) has any effect on individualised pricing.
Were I to pay for the same consumption by frequently buying cheaper powerpacks and specials would my individualised pricing be different from had I purchased everyday standard power only ?
November 5th, 2009 at 12:47 pm@Peter:
No, your purchases have no bearing on prices, purely consumption. Obviously your cost will be lower if you buy specials, but your pricing will be the same irrespective of what you have bought.
November 5th, 2009 at 12:50 pmThanks Ari,
I expected and hoped that would be the case.
To have it explicitly stated is good to know and reassuring.
November 5th, 2009 at 12:55 pmThanks Ari, I suspected that might be the case. However, I’m not sure I understand the comparison to other retailers regarding consumption. Don’t they have published unit tariffs that don’t change regardless of how much one consumes i.e. I would pay the same unit price (standard users)as my neighbour who may be using three times as much (assuming we have the same meter set up). I guess it doesn’t matter though if Powershop ensures each individual tracks cheaper than the lowest priced competitor through individualised price adjustments. Good on you for coming up with the Powershop pricing commitment. Keep it up.
November 5th, 2009 at 9:09 pm@Wayne:
Thanks.
You are right other retailers do have published tariffs that apply equally to all like-customers, the point I was trying to make is simply that the effective unit cost will be different based on your usage because of the fixed daily charge. Take an example:
A retailer has a daily charge of $1/day and a unit rate of $0.20/kWh.
Customer A:
uses 8,000 kWh pa.
Total cost = 365d X $1 + 8000kWh X $0.2 = $1965 pa
Effective unit price = $1965/8000 = $0.2465/kWh
Customer B:
uses 10,000 kWh pa.
Total cost = 365d X $1 + 10000kWh X $0.2 = $2365 pa
Effectice unit price = $2365/10000 = $0.2365/kWh
So you can see the effective price you pay is different. You get a similar effect for day, night usage etc etc. Our personalisation of customer pricing delivers a similar outcome, but in a way that allows easy comparisons to be made.
Hope this all makes sense.
November 5th, 2009 at 10:09 pm@Wayne
What Ari meant is that for other companies, if you divide the total bill by the units consumed, you will find that large users have a lower effective cost/unit.
I guess what Powershop could do is publish how much what each user pays is due to the fixed charge.
November 5th, 2009 at 10:14 pm@Felix:
Correct. I’ll have a think about ways to present the ‘fixed’ component in a simple fashion. I am not sure whether it will be more meaningful to show a current price breakdown, or a historical cost breakdown.
November 5th, 2009 at 10:19 pmThanks guys. Great explanation. I see what you mean now.
November 6th, 2009 at 1:45 pmYay for API! Anyway, questions and suggestions for next version:
November 21st, 2009 at 4:54 pm1.What is the max number of requests/hour? Does that refer to GET or POST or both? Per API key or per customer?
2.Does customer region correspond to the different lines company/pricing zones?
3.What is the policy of using the Powershop name and logo? Who owns the data anyway?
4.It would be nice to still get the name and email of the customer: to greet them by name and to send them stuff (if they want to).
5.Requested info for customer: customer number (or some unique identifier), next meter reading date, calculated daily consumption.
6.Can I get the last x meter readings, in addition to specifying by date?
7.Requested info for products (so I don’t have to parse it from html): a product number, price per pack, units in pack, quota per customer, date you can next buy it if you have already reached the purchase quota, date product put in shop, date product will be removed from shop, date when the current price was set, power available date, power expiry date, pic, indication whether customer has set a preferred product, pricing history, refund option.
8.Let customers buy arbitrary products.
Sorry for the long list…
We should share what we are doing so as to prevent duplicating effort. People have said they are doing iPhone, Android and Arduino, I’m just doing a RSS feed (for now).
@Felix:
Thanks for the feedback.
In answer to your questions:
1. I believe requests are throttled to 1000/hr per key. However, if for some reason you did need more we can grant more requests.
2. The region is a geographic region (that may or may not be set), not the lines company.
3. Haven’t thought about ‘rules’ for logo use - I’ll get back to you on this. Much of the data is ultimately ‘owned’ by the customer - they can give developers whatever permission/restrictions they like on use. Pricing data is ‘owned’ by Powershop - at this stage I don’t see any need to restrict use of this data.
4. We have made the decision to pull all ‘personal information’ from the API. Powershop has privacy and security obligations to customers and if we were to leave this information in the API we would need quite onerous terms and conditions for developers around keeping data encrypted and secure etc. We think it is better to give developers more freedom, but not provide any personal details. There is nothing stopping developers collecting this data from customers themselves and providing their own commitments around security and privacy.
5. Customer Email and ICP uniquely identify the customer and property respectively. Given that we are going to remove the customer email I will get this replaced with customer number. The current calculated daily consumption is included in the Customer API call.
6. We’ll add this to the development list.
7. ditto.
8. We may add this in the future, but we wanted to start with a purchase mechanism that had minimal purchase functionality to avoid unrealistic purchases/transactions being initiated either in error or if a developers applications are hacked.
We’ll setup a discussion group for developers shortly.
November 22nd, 2009 at 3:36 pmThanks Ari.
November 22nd, 2009 at 7:06 pm5.There are two averages on the website: one calculated by two consecutive readings, and one calculated by readings at least 5 days apart. I think the API only provides the latter? I would like to request the former one too. This feature is the one I would like to see the most.
API??? I’m very interested in scripting purchases (I’m lazy). What information is available on this?
November 24th, 2009 at 9:31 pm@Steve:
An API is an Application Programming Interface. A more full description can be found on Wikipedia. You will need some programming experience to be able to make use of the API.
Our beta API has just been released into ‘test’. You can find details at the Powershop Developers discussion group. At this stage we have limited purchase functionality to ‘top-up’ only to avoid the risk of multiple/large erroneous transactions (as outlined to Felix above).
Hope this helps.
November 24th, 2009 at 9:39 pmThanks Ari,
I’m an embedded developer by day (and sometimes night). Had a quick look at the API, sounds cool.
I’d think that an ajax style web-app would be a good target.
.. but my employment contract is pretty restrictive about what I’m allowed to do, inc out of hours : (
Anyway I’m keeping a keen eye out..
November 26th, 2009 at 10:55 am@Steve:
Thanks Steve - hope you didn’t think I was teaching you to suck eggs, it’s hard to tell how much someone on the other of a blog post knows, so better to cover the bases
It’s a shame your employment contract restricts your ‘hobbies’ so much
Feel free to contribute to the discussion group though, if you have ideas that you want (and are allowed) to contribute.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:02 amHi Ari,
Could you take a look at the Products Purchased page of my account as I have 1 suggestion and 3 questions arising from it.
Yesterday morning I noticed that my Halloween Power and Labour weekend product are the next to expire ( at the account review after 31 October). For Halloween Power it shows I bought 30 units, have used zero units and have zero active units. For the Labour Weekend product the numbers are bought 95, used 55, zero active units.
Active units are defined as ” an estimated breakdown of the products that make up your current unit balance.” I noticed that products expiring after 30 November and after 31 December are active.
I phoned customer service to ask why the above 2 products due to soon expire showed unused units but zero active units.
The customer service rep did her best but was handicapped by not being to access my account Products Purchased page to see what I was seeing. I had to describe it to her.
1. My suggestion is that customer service would be enhanced by enabling your customer service people to view all pages of a caller’s account on their computer.
Eventually she ( sensibly) proposed she get back to me that afternoon after asking a manager to access my Products Purchased page. As I was out that afternoon she replied by email :-
“hi Peter
Further to our telephone conversation of this morning, I spoke to my manager and the reason that the Black Friday and Halloween units are not showing as available is because they are being used in the current billing period but are not actually billed yet. We are looking to add an extra column in the Product Page to show this.
On the unit balance page they are included in the units used figure.”
( My Black Friday units are showing as active. Obviously she meant my Labour Weeked units.)
The concept of unbilled units in the current billing period as it relates to pre-paid purchases is a new one to me.
After much thought trying to make sense of this I am surmising that the answer to this apparent conundrum lies in the definition of “units used” namely ” units you have bought and have been redeemed (or used), following a review of your account.” (italics mine).
2. Am I correct in thinking that I have actually used all my Halloween and Labour Weekend units, but the Products Purchased page will only show them as being used once my account is next reviewed ?
3. Am I correct in thinking that the extra column you are looking to add in the Products Purchased page will show an current estimate of units used from each product?
One of the enjoyable aspects of Powershop is pre-purchase of bargains. I think it important that all -prepurchasers understand how the system works and insofar as possible have a good estimate of how much of each product they have used. Else they risk that sinking feeling when they suspect what they thought at the time was a hot bargain has turned into expired units. For a while there I thought my own lack of understanding was about to result in my Halloween and Labour Weekend units expiring. The current layout of the PP page has scope for confusion and will certainly be enhanced by the addition of a current estimate of units used from each product.
This experience also got me thinking about your highly desirable alarm feature. It has the potential to work really well for such a regular user as me. ( My average daily units used over each week is always within 1 unit of estimated.)
4. Am I correct in understanding that I will be warned if I am about to purchase any product predicted to result in expired units assuming continuation of my existing usage pattern ?
November 27th, 2009 at 11:48 amWhile we’re on the topic of the Products Purchased page. I have found it confusing particularly as the page changed before my first review. I had similar concerns to Peter, for example, about my Labour Weekend and Halloween units.
Terminology is part of the problem. For example, At present, “Active” means units estimated to be remaining after my estimated/actual usage. But I would expect “Active” to mean units that are active/alive and can be used in the current review period. As they are active they can be affected by my activities such as reducing my power use or purchasing other units. “Inactive” units would then be units that have been used in a previous review period or have expired - nothing I can do would affect them.
Using my idea of “active”, the columns could be as follows:
1. Bought
2. Used at last review
3. Active (ie remaining for use in this review period)
4. Estimated used (this review period)
5. Estimated remaining (this review period)
The calculations are:
1. Bought - 2. Used at last review = 3. Active
3. Active - 4. Estimated used = 5. Estimated remaining
Columns 1 & 2 are only needed for reconciliation purposes so I can see what is happening to what I’ve purchased. So Powershop could leave them out but that might mean more work for consumers who wanted to look back a review period to reconcile their usage.
Columns 3-5 are needed so I can see what is happening in the current review period.
November 27th, 2009 at 2:43 pmAnother thought.
I had thought of using the terms “billed” and “unbilled” which would be the more usual terminology. The problem with using these terms with Powershop is that users are encouraged to pre-pay. In this situation, we receive our bills when we pre-purchase so we have already been billed. The billed and unbilled terms only makes sense if I post-pay.
November 27th, 2009 at 2:49 pm@Peter @Mark:
Thanks for your feedback and suggestions.
Firstly, I agree the ‘products purchased’ report is a bit confusing. To be honest, it is the report we have been struggling with the most. We want to simplify the information presented, while at the same time making it consistent and easily reconcilable with the Account Balance page. And yes, the terminology doesn’t help much. What we intend to do is add one vital piece of missing information to the report - estimated use within the current billing period. So we will show:
1. Units Bought
2. Units Used (at last account review)
3. Units Used (since last account review)
4. Units Active
This should remove most of the confusion.
On your other points Peter, we had always intended to give our CSRs access to customer accounts, but we had initially provided this to managers - full access will be given shortly.
And, yes you will be warned if you try and buy more than 20 days (estimated) power for any given month.
November 28th, 2009 at 9:58 pmUpdate 2 on me getting a day/night meter. After the last encounter with the meter installer, Powershop called and asked if I am interested in a smart meter. Of course I am.
Two meter guys came today, one from Metrix and one from Arc Innovations. Nearly two hours later, the result is this: http://i45.tinypic.com/28c13lj.jpg Cool. It seemed that I am the first Powershop customer to get a Arc meter and the Arc guy flew up from Christchurch just for this. Yes, I was not happy with how Powershop initially handled the meter change, but this made up for it completely.
I had to wait six weeks before I got the meter, because they had to train the technician. Powershop called every week to tell me they are still training, which is much better than before. Now all I have to do is wait for it to switch over to day/night rate.
Question: you can see there’s a digital display that shows the current consumption. I asked if they can put it inside, but was told it is policy to put it with the meter outside. Doesn’t this negate the whole point of having a display?
December 9th, 2009 at 12:43 pm@Felix:
I’m glad we finally got things sorted for you - sorry about mucking you around earlier.
As to the digital display, I am not sure what is behind that ‘policy’ - we do not own or install the meters ourselves. I agree that it is a little odd leaving the display unit outside, however, there is a lot of research questioning the value of in-home dispalys - the novelty value apparently wears off quickly. It may be that because of this the additional expense of putting the displays is not justified. I will see if I can find out more.
December 9th, 2009 at 12:52 pmThanks for sorting it out. Did Meridian just get owned by the government? Forcing them to take the Whirinaki diesel power plant and destroying their 100% wind and water brand. Do you think these measures are useful? http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3143529/Sweeping-energy-sector-changes-announced
December 9th, 2009 at 2:53 pm@Felix:
Meridian is a State Owned Enterprise (SOE) so has always been owned by the Government.
We are currently reviewing the proposals in detail, but out initial reaction is that we have grave concerns that consumers will be significantly disadvantaged by these proposals in both security of supply and energy prices. I will elaborate further when we have fully reviewed the proposals.
December 9th, 2009 at 3:35 pmAri,
December 9th, 2009 at 7:06 pmHow come powerpacks for the colder months work out to be more than what one would expect everyday prices to be during those months - like with last years winter packs and the current autumn packs? Shouldn’t there be a monetary incentive for locking-in power in advance? Or is it just too risky during that time of year?
The summer packs were priced for me at a rate that’s cheaper than my current prices, so I’m pleased about them. But not sure the autumn packs are priced at a level to make it worth purchasing in advance (IMO).
December 9th, 2009 at 7:40 pm@Jared @Andrew:
Powerpacks do incorporate some discount for purchasing in advance, but yes forecasting prices many months out is uncertain. Like fixed rate mortgages, buying in advance is more about getting some certainty into your cost rather than a discount per se, although this may occur as well.
We have one customer who has told us he is a trader and his approach to buying powerpacks is to set a target price that will deliver him a set saving compared to his old retailer, and if powerpacks fall below this he will buy them. This seems like an interesting buying strategy, but I am sure you could up with your own to meet your personal objectives.
December 9th, 2009 at 8:24 pmDay/night prices have shown up. The systems shows I am on 70/30 split. The prices are 10% lower. Great!
I want to ask why there’s a question mark showing the day/night split for Meridian 300 but not Flower Power Catch Up or Standard Power Value Pack?
December 11th, 2009 at 12:53 am@Felix:
We have not provided the breakdown on ‘dollar denominated’ packs. The Meridian 300 pack is ‘unit denominated’ and does have the split.
December 11th, 2009 at 9:14 amHow do I remove an incorrect reading from a data entry error? I’d prefer not to have it in the database.
I didn’t even get an error message or warning when I typed in a reading less than my previous few readings.
December 13th, 2009 at 9:51 am@Mark:
As a general rule we only use the last meter reading on any particular day for our charts etc. So if you incorrectly enter a meter reading, simply re-enter it and it will effectively ‘replace’ the previous incorrect one.
If you have an incorrect historic reading, simply email or call the contact centre with the date/time of the reading and we will invalidate it for you.
December 13th, 2009 at 12:08 pmHi there Ari. I have just recently joined up with powershop and enjoying the savings that I am making. One thing though and that is in the signup process when we were asked to put our suburb in I noticed that for here in New Plymouth that Marfell the suburb I live in was not on the list. I put the next suburb that was closest to me for the suburb which is Blagdon and physical mail sent to me did actually arrive but it would be good to have Marfell added to the suburb list for future customers in this area.
December 20th, 2009 at 10:03 pm@Lance:
Thanks for that, I’ll pass it on to the ops guys to fix - I believe our suburb list is an NZ Post list, so it surprises me that your suburb is missing.
December 20th, 2009 at 10:09 pmHi there, I supose my question has probably been answered before but there is ALOT of info to sift through. Units expire
which is a shame. I had hoped to get into “credit” with my power something that NEVER happened with my previous supplier Will there come a time when top up packs or units wont expire? I understand that the specials “steal a deal” and such will have to expire but why top ups? I dont mind losing a couple of units but 150, Ouch. thanks for humoring me.
December 21st, 2009 at 1:33 pm@Gina:
The reason we have expiry dates at all is to allow ourselves and other suppliers to have more certainty over our energy cost. This in turn means that we do not need to build risk margins into our prices ie. keeping them lower.
We do not like customers energy expiring, which is why we warn you when we think you might be buying too much, but as I have said, having expiry dates does allow us to keep prices down overall.
December 21st, 2009 at 3:08 pmInstead of expired units just vanishing, how about having an option to donate them to a charity?
This shouldn’t increase Powershop’s risk if the charity accounts are managed appropriately (i.e. kept in the red, so that the charity’s power consumption occurs during the time period for which the expired units were originally intended).
December 22nd, 2009 at 10:08 am@Geoff:
We have previously considered ’suspend and transfer’ capability in the past - this functionality would allow a customer to transfer to a charity or auction off unused credits on trademe or similar.
However, we did not pursue this for two reasons:
1) In an ideal world there wouldn’t be any unused credits. In practice the number is very low, so building this functionality for such a small number of credits is hard to justify.
2) It is quite complex to transfer between customers as everyone’s meter configuration, usage and therefore pricing is different. It is not impossible to manage this, but we have concerns that we would end up with many calls to our contact centre to understand the process, or resolve disputes on transactions we are not even a party to.
We will keep an eye on this, and reconsider if the volume of unused credits increases.
December 22nd, 2009 at 11:29 amHave you got issues with the graphs and calanders at the moment?
January 6th, 2010 at 3:27 pmYes, we do. A few of the graphs were set up as ‘calendar year’ charts and have no data yet for 2010. We are currently modifying these to be ‘rolling’ like the other charts. Not sure when these will be live, but the crew are working on it.
January 6th, 2010 at 3:56 pmHi, Just wondering if there is any historical pricing of Powershop packs as it would be interesting to see the price diffences through winter vs summer months. Could you give me an indication of the cost per unit for an everyday pack (or a pack of your choosing) for the months of July, August, November, December. Thanks.
January 6th, 2010 at 5:05 pm@Interested:
We don’t have anything available straight away, but we will pull something together for a typical customer and post that an on the blog.
January 6th, 2010 at 5:08 pmHi guys,
February 10th, 2010 at 9:32 amI’ve been a Wellington Powershop customer for around seven months now and so far I’m enjoying it overall. There is one thing that’s starting to annoy me though…Steal a Deal. Now I’m usually pretty crafty when it comes to finding a bargain but in my seven months I have not yet been crafty enough to steal one of these deals. Has anyone ever bought one of these packs or are these specials misleading us all? For example, last night I checked in at 10.30pm and there was no ‘Steal a Deal’. I checked back in at 9.20am this morning and they are sold out! I’d be interested to know what time the special went live and what time it sold out. Although I can appreciate if those who have this insight want to keep it information to themselves
@Wayne:
I can assure you that these specials are real and there are many customers who have managed to snap one up. A few weeks ago we did change our process in an attempt to make it fairer to all and make sure that all customers have a chance of getting one at some stage. The following is an extract from our Facebook page:
Powershop Fans thanks for your feedback on our specials. Based on your feedback we’ve made a few changes to improve fairness. Steal a deal products will be made available at random times of the day. These and other restricted availability specials will be notified via FB and Twitter at the same time they are added to… the shop (rather than before) to allow everyone an equal chance to steal a deal!.
There has also been some previous discussion over here.
Hang in there, I’m sure you’re time will come.
February 10th, 2010 at 10:06 amWayne, I’m in Wellington, and have gotten a total of five ‘Steal a Deal’ packs since they began coming out last year (including both the Wellington and National deals).
February 10th, 2010 at 2:22 pmI forgot to add… I also missed out today! Will have to be quicker next time.
February 10th, 2010 at 2:23 pmI’m in Lower Hutt and I’ve twice managed to get Steal a Deal since I joined late last year. I only got it yesterday because I logged in to enter my power reading.
February 11th, 2010 at 7:50 amCan I promote my website again? http://psrss.co.cc/ It will notify you when a new product appears in the shop so you can catch those specials!
February 11th, 2010 at 1:40 pm@Felix
At the moment I have the twitter icon on my desktop which I click on a couple of times a day to see if a Powershop special has been announced.
February 12th, 2010 at 10:48 amIdeal would be something that would pop up on my screen or toolbar to notify me when a new product appears in the shop. If your service can provide such a pop-up I will thank you and embrace it. Can it ?
Sure, you just need to install a RSS reader (search Google) then add the link provided by my site to it. The RSS reader will notify you when something new appears. I personally use Alertbear but any RSS reader should work.
February 12th, 2010 at 12:49 pm@Peter
February 12th, 2010 at 1:12 pmI’m currently using Felix’s feed on firefox with an addon called ’simple RSS reader’. The addon is a toolbar at the top of the browser that will tick through the products available.
Felix - nice job!
@Felix & Jared
I’ve installed AlertBear. It does exactly what I want when tested with feeds from other sites - alerts me with a popup on my desktop and makes a noise. It’s only downside is it’s shortest interval between checking feeds for updates appears to be 30 minutes, and I don’t know if hot Powershop specials always last 30 minutes before being snapped up.
My question is what URL should I be entering into the reader to get my Powershop feed ? I authorised access at Felix’s site. I have tried entering both http://psrss.co.cc/ and the (considerably longer ) URL of the page which appears after I authorised access. In both cases AlertBear told me a valid feed could not be found at that location.
As you can tell, RSS feeds and readers are new to me. Many thanks for answering my questions.
February 13th, 2010 at 10:16 amAfter you login, you should see your address, and a link that says Product. Click the Product link, and copy that address to Alertbear.
February 13th, 2010 at 10:27 amThanks Felix. It worked.
February 13th, 2010 at 11:37 am@Felix
February 13th, 2010 at 8:48 pmHow does the rss feed access the product information without needing authorisation each time? ie - is the users account info safe?
@Jared:
Felix’s RSS application uses the Powershop API. This works much the same way as Facebook applications do. When a Powershop customer authorises access the application is given an “access token”. This token allows the application to carry out a limited amount of functions on the customer account:
- Access to property details (but not personal or banking details)
- Access to meter reading history and the ability to update a meter reading
- A list of products (with prices) currently available to that customer
- The ability to “Top up” a customer account (this only allows a top up to a zero balance and will purchase the default product using the preferred payment method).
If you are or become concerned about the security of an application you have granted access to, you can revoke the access token in the “My Settings/Applications” area, and access to your account will be disabled immediately.
Application developers are required to comply with our Powershop API Terms and Conditions to ensure customer data is kept safe and secure.
February 13th, 2010 at 9:37 pmThats all good. I wasn’t really concerned for the security, just curious…
February 14th, 2010 at 8:55 amHow about a function to enable us to select a defualt view of the Daily consumption usage graphs?
February 16th, 2010 at 12:54 pm@Damian:
I’ll add it to the list
February 16th, 2010 at 1:41 pmHi Ari,
I am a bit confused about how the personalised prices are calculated for each customer.
Here are my meter readings from my last account review on the 9th of Feburary 2010.
Night - 14880
Weekday day - 1306
Weekend day - 505
The readings from the previous month are as follows -
Night - 14768
Weekday day - 1065
Weekend day - 413
So my math says that’s 112 night units, 241 day units and 92 weekend day units.
So my actual night usage is -
112 / (241 + 92) ~= 33.6%
However, my prices do not reflect that. My unit pricing is based on 26.8% night usage. Can you please explain to me how that was calculated?
Also, would it be possible to turn on my hot water heating on only during the night (i.e. between 9pm and 7am)? If yes, what do I need to do?
- Shreyas.
March 9th, 2010 at 11:04 am@Shreyas:
Life is a little more complicated than what it might first appear. Below is a resposnse to your question from our Head of Operations (Jim) that has also been emailed to you.
A couple of things to explain with your calculation
1. The night usage percentage would be calculated as Night / (Night + Weekday Day + Weekend Day).
So using your figures this would be 112 / (112 + 241 + 92). You used 112 / (241 + 92)
2. Also, when selecting the readings we use for this calculation, we don’t quite do it the way you anticipated. As we get daily reads for your property we calculate things for each calendar month. The process for calculating the current register weightings is as follows:
- If we bill you before calendar day 15, then we use the reading before the start of the previous month and the reading after the end of the previous month.
So in your example we billed on 9th Feb so calculated the January values using reads from 31 Dec and 1 Feb. These are the values you will see until we bill you in Mar.
- If we had billed you after calendar day 15 (eg 18th feb) we would have instead calculated the February value using a read from 31st Jan and 18th Feb.
So the values you are currently seeing in the shop were calculated as follows:
1/02/2010 31/12/2009 Units Night 14854 14752 102 D2/(D2+D3+D4)= 26.8% Weekday Day 1254 1059 195 D3/(D2+D3+D4)= 51.3% Weekend Day 485 402 83 D4/(D2+D3+D4)= 21.8%
We have recently changed the 15 days down to 8 days so that from now on, if we bill you after the 8th calendar date, we will calculate your usage for the current month using the read on the bill date and the read from the day before the month started.
I appreciate this is not that easy to explain, but we do have good reasons for using this approach so that we can accurately reflect customer’s usage whether they get reads on a daily basis or monthly.
Hope this makes sense.
If you require any further clarification please feel free to call.
March 9th, 2010 at 2:45 pmHi Ari
Long time and no contact on here, i have been away during the holidays and glad that i could use the online funtions and purchase power anywhere anytime. hows was your christmas? hope you had some time off work too.
anyway i am happy with the service of powershop so far and glad to say that what you guys are doing here is a start for “real” competition in electricity industry even though it does not seems like it so far as there is hardly any other major retailer selling through here.
as i am quite passionate about elictricity industry and also happy with the service in poershop after being so critical at first, i would like to ask if i could help you with some advertisement and recruiting new customers, as from my own experience this site really is customer orientated and i have good proposals for you.
much regards
March 15th, 2010 at 11:42 pm@Akmal:
Hi, good to hear from you again - we were starting to think you didn’t love us anymore
I am glad that you have found Powershop beneficial, and that you gave us a chance to prove ourselves to you.
I would love to hear about any proposals you have - please email them to info(at)powershop.co.nz attention Ari.
March 16th, 2010 at 7:32 amAri
i just sent you a quick email, not a full on proposal but just a quick info of how i can help out and what i belive will work. especially when the winter months are comming up.
March 16th, 2010 at 7:29 pmAri
did you get my email?
March 18th, 2010 at 4:28 pm@Akmal:
I have just chased it up. I’ll respond directly in the next couple of days.
March 18th, 2010 at 5:07 pmHi Ari
With the monthly power cost graphs & weekend rebates is the $ amount shown before or after weekend rebates - IE is the actual power cost end up being what is shown or does it work out cheaper then that?
March 28th, 2010 at 12:48 am@Warwick:
Good question. I’ll have to check on that and get back to you.
March 28th, 2010 at 6:23 pmI noticed the prices on products have jumped almost 2c/unit since a few weeks ago… I guess this ( http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/3525130/High-spot-prices-hint-at-power-price-rise ) is to blame?
March 30th, 2010 at 8:14 amStill cheaper than my old supplier though
@Jason:
The increase in pricing is partly related to current market conditions, but this is the time of year our winter pricing kicks in anyway. Our prices will be slightly higher through winter and then drop down again as spring approaches. In the peak of winter your prices might rise slightly above those of your old supplier but will drop below again later in the year resulting in savings across the course of the year.
March 30th, 2010 at 2:30 pmHi Ari
Any luck finding out about the w/e rebates?
March 31st, 2010 at 1:29 pm@Warwick:
Sorry, yes. The weekend rebates are *not* included in any of the charts ie. you need to deduct any weekend rebates from your purchases to calculate your actual costs, and similarly the price charts overstate your effective purchase price. We’ll look at making a change to this later on.
March 31st, 2010 at 1:41 pmHi Ari,
I’ve just noticed that the price of power/unit has gone up from 18.36c/unit to 23.54c/unit. Is this a joke? That’s a rise of over 5c/unit! I’m most inclined to switch to another supplier if this increase stands.
- Shreyas.
April 1st, 2010 at 11:22 amMine has gone up a huge seven cents since I last looked 4 days ago!!!!
Thats a rather large jump dont you think.
April 1st, 2010 at 3:40 pmHi Ari,
I am with Shreyas. There’s such a fluctuation in my prices, from 18.xx cents to now 20.25cents. Although I am expecting the unit price is going to increase during winter months, but we just stepped into April and it’s not even winter yet.
I also have noticed that last year my unit price was 19.93cents in May and 20.06cents in June,we are now only in April and the price is already higher than the last year’s peak unit price. What is going on?
April 1st, 2010 at 5:28 pm@Shreyas:
There are a number of reasons behind your price increase.
Firstly, we have increased our energy price to reflect winter pricing - the wholesale energy contracts market operates on quarterly contracts, and the 1 April quarter is the first of the “winter” quarters and our energy purchase costs increase then too.
Secondly, in Christchurch we have adjusted the way in which we allocate the fixed and variable parts of the network charge to be more in line our cost structure.
We accept, based on your feedback and feedback from others that the compounding effect of this is a large and sudden shift, so we are reviewing our Christchurch prices again to stagger the network pricing changes to soften the blow.
@Shreyas @Wayne:
As mentioned above, our energy purchase cost has increased because the wholesale market is largely based on quarterly contracts, so while it may not be “winter” yet we have entered the winter pricing period. The price changes that we have made have been factored into our savings calculator, so while your prices have gone up, you should still save money over the course of the year. Indeed, depending on who your old retailer was, you unit prices now may still be lower than your old supplier, without even accounting for our even lower pricing in spring and summer.
I appreciate that these changes create some concern, but it is an inherent part of the way Powershop operates, and hopefully you will understand (and we will demonstrate) that you will be better off overall.
Thanks for your feedback too, we genuinely appreciate it.
April 1st, 2010 at 6:30 pm@Gary:
see response to Shreyas and Mike above - we have adjusted our network pricing change to soften the blow of these increases.
April 1st, 2010 at 7:58 pmAppreciate your explanation and I am now buying the Easter Special to offset the high elec cost in the winter months. I hope my calculation is right that I will still be better off after factoring in the 2-3 months of interests component.
Anyway, I am still a happy Powershop customer as it gives me more control. I also would like to point out that when I was away for a month, I was not charged the fixed costs as the other providers do.
Happy Easter~
April 2nd, 2010 at 9:32 pm@Wayne:
Thanks. Enjoy the rest of the Easter break, and the last of daylight savings time.
April 2nd, 2010 at 9:38 pmI joined late last May and have been quite happy with PS so far. I’ve spoken in glowing terms of PS to friends and neighbors. But I now felt with “egg on my face” when I saw the price increases within ten days. In my case it was an increase of ca. 20% for “Standard Power Top Up” and “Value Pack” from Mar 23rd to Apr 1st.
Reading earlier responses I’ve now seen an explanation, but the jumps from almost day to day (I’ve noted price increases for “Standard Power” products on Mar 26th, 31st and Apr 1st and 2nd) were making me question my move to PS. In particular I was getting worried when extrapolating this trend into the winter. I wonder whether the extent of the wholesale price increase were foreseeable, and to which degree a pro-active communication could have soften the blow to customers.
Now all is not lost thanks to the “Easter Special”. But for me to get my quantities right I need to understand the T&C: My review date is pretty late in the month, and I wonder if a part of the July allocation from the “Easter Special” can be used for my June account review. Likewise I wonder if part of my September allocation is still good for my October review. Furthermore I take it that the August allocation can be used at reviews in July, August or September. This is at least how I interpret the final “Units are valid …” sentence of the T&C, and it would really matter to me if I’m wrong in my understanding.
A timely response to my question would be highly appreciated.
A hopefully good Easter break to everyone!!
April 3rd, 2010 at 12:28 pm@Martin:
Firstly, sorry if you feel a little betrayed by us. Certainly that is not our intention and we remain committed to trying to save our customers money on their, albeit with seasonal variation in our prices.
We have debated at length whether or not to “announce” price changes, however this is complicated by the fact that all customers prices are set individually and will vary according to their own usage. We are working on ways in which we might be able to present this information in a meaningful and easily understandable way in the future to help avoid the shock that you and other customers have felt.
In terms of your question regarding the relationship between your review date and the expiry dates of power packs such as the Easter special, I’ll describe a simple example first. Let’s say that you have a May power pack - this is “nominally” for power used in May, however, as we do not read every customer’s meter (and review their account) on the first day of every month we allow a “grace period” either side of the nominal month - so the “May” power pack can be redeemed against power used between your last account review in April through to your first account review in June.
The Easter special is basically 3 power packs (July, August and September) sold together. Each of these packs will operate as in the example May pack above ie. they will all have a grace period each side of their nominal month. I hope this explains everything for you.
Likewise I hope you enjoy the rest of the Easter break and feel comfortable enough to snap up an Easter special (they truly are value for money, and also take the sting out of your winter power costs).
April 3rd, 2010 at 2:12 pm@Ari:
Thanks for your quick response.
Since I really don’t want to get this wrong I’m trying to apply your explanation onto my specific situation (with the hope to get a confirmation from yourself, and apologies to everybody who is now bored reading this):
The Juli allocation can be used for power consumed from late June to late August, the August allocation can be used for power consumed from late July to late September and the September allocation can be used for power consumed from late August to late October. Have I got this right?
April 3rd, 2010 at 3:02 pm@Martin:
That is correct, assuming that your meter reading/account review occurs late in the month (as it does now). However you cannot absolutely rely on this, as our meter reading contractor operates to a 20 business day cycle, so the day in the month may vary. You can guarantee you will get no less than the nominal month, and you will typically rely on getting some additional grace period of a couple of weeks.
April 3rd, 2010 at 4:23 pmIs it fair to say the more a customer has pre-paid, the higher the winter prices has been set?
April 3rd, 2010 at 6:00 pm@Jared:
No, this is not the case. Your prices depend on how much you use, but not how much you have bought.
April 3rd, 2010 at 6:05 pmWill the historical pricing data be available soon?
April 3rd, 2010 at 6:13 pm@Felix:
The easiest way to access historic prices at the moment is to download your transaction history into a spreadsheet. We are working on getting other data out, but because all customers have personalised prices we need to recreate historic prices for any products that were not actually purchased (ie. if you want to get a price history of a particular product). Unfortunately, it is not as simple as just grabbing prices straight out of a database.
April 3rd, 2010 at 8:26 pmThanks. Yes, the other data would also be useful, especially as I had a meter change (to day/night) which changed all the prices.
April 3rd, 2010 at 8:55 pmHave you seen these guys http://www.switchme.co.nz
April 5th, 2010 at 10:55 amI notice they claim to be “a great way to compare all power companies on one site” but powershop is no where to be seen
Their figures look a bit Suspect too.
April 5th, 2010 at 10:59 amThey asked where I live (chch) meter type (night/day) and how much my monthly power bill was ($150) then told me Genesis Energy cound do it for $89.01 which I would doubt
It also says Contact is the cheapest in west auckland, but Consumer price trends say they put their prices up a couple of months ago, they are now the 2nd most expensive…. thats concerning.
April 6th, 2010 at 12:55 pm@Warwick @Jared:
Yes, we have had some discussions with these guys. I am not sure where they get their information from, so can’t really comment on its reliability or currency, but their numbers don’t seem to match ours, or Consumer’s powerswitch website. I would recommend that people use http://powerswitch.org.nz/ as they are independent and have existing relationships with all retailers to get up to date pricing information.
April 6th, 2010 at 1:04 pmHi Ari - how long before the new ‘refer a friend’ commences? I have a friend who has just bought a house and is looking ‘right now’ at electricity suppliers!
April 6th, 2010 at 1:20 pm@Andrew:
We’re hoping to have this back up later this week.
April 7th, 2010 at 7:06 am@Warwick
Hi Guys - we’re currently dicussing Powershop’s inclusion to the Switchme website with Hamish W. As I’m sure you’ll appreciate, Powershop doesn’t use the standard NZ retailer calcuation when providing quotes to customers, and so we’re having to make some changes to our site to accommodate Powershop.
We’re really excited about delivering customers to Powershop and it would be great to get some support from you guys too.
Switchme is in its early stages and we’re currently making some significant changes to the customer experience to address the concerns you’ve outlined above.
Please feel free to send any specific feedback directly through to us and we’ll happily respond.
April 8th, 2010 at 11:59 amHi, we have a smart meter which has night time readings. I have been monitoring our usage during the day and at night, but what I am wondering is what times do night time start and finish for recording power usage? Thanks.
April 8th, 2010 at 10:25 pm@Gemma:
In the Orion network (Canterbury) “Day” is 7am - 9pm and “Night” is 9pm - 7am.
April 8th, 2010 at 10:36 pmhi Ari
i have still NOT heard from you in regards to the proposal i emailed? wondering if you have forgotten.
April 9th, 2010 at 4:20 pmHi
after seeing the price hikes in powershop, why would i join it as you are charging almost 2o cents per k/w where my retailer charging only 18 cents will less hassle. and you r prices always go up where my current retailer stays the same all around the year.
April 9th, 2010 at 4:27 pm@Akmal:
Sorry, I haven’t forgotten you, I have been a bit tied up lately, but I will respond.
April 9th, 2010 at 4:48 pm@Martin:
You are correct we do have seasonal changes in our prices, but the best way to get an idea of the benefit of joining Powershop is to look at how much you will spend over the whole year. You also need to be careful that you are comparing “apples-with-apples” - we do not have fixed daily charges and all our prices include GST. I would recommend you use our savings calculator or take a look at Consumer’s Powerswitch website.
Also, Powershop doesn’t need to be less hassle - you do not need to do anything after you have signed up, however, if you want to monitor and manage your usage to save even more money then you can use the information we provide to help you.
At the end of the day the decision is yours, but I would recommend you do your research carefully before making your decision.
April 9th, 2010 at 4:54 pmHi Ari,
April 11th, 2010 at 11:59 amCan you please have a look at my account? I was away the whole month February 2010 (well, except 28/02 when I came back). I had the main switch switched off and my friend occasionally came to my place to have a quick look. If you look at my monthly usage, it shows i used 75units. In reality, i doubt I used even more than 5 units (unless my friend did something at my place). Now if you look at the daily consumption, it shows I used a total of about 7 units for Feb. My questions:
(1) is the monthly power use a kind of average calculation? i.e.in this case, average of my feb and mar review? this kind of explain the situation.
(2) if it is not, can you please explain what the logic is as I don’t want to know I am relying on an excellent representation but it lacks accuracy.
Thanks
@Wayne:
The short answer is, yes. The monthly usage is an estimate of sorts. Basically, the monthly usage is calculated based on the meter readings used to do your monthly account review. We obviously know the exact consumption between these two readings, but we need to estimate how much of this consumption falls in each month if (as in most cases) the reading isn’t taken on the 1st of the month.
I will need to double check this in your case (as you have a smart meter with daily readings) but you had account reviews in mid-February and mid-March - both of these reviews will have allocated some of your consumption to February.
If you have a look at your daily consumption chart and select “raw data” you will see that most of the month your consumption was 0.01 kWh/d, other than a few days when perhaps you friend popped in to check on things.
April 11th, 2010 at 4:26 pmAri - my friend is moving house and needs to sign up by tonight, or tomorrow at the latest. Can you give a better indication of when ‘refer-a-friend’ will be available again? Last week you said, “hopefully later this week” but nothing eventuated.
April 12th, 2010 at 11:41 am@Andrew:
Sorry, we have had a couple of delays. Why don’t you get your friend to sign up under this promo, and if you raise a ticket with your friends name, we’ll credit $25 to your account.
April 12th, 2010 at 11:45 amMust say, to date i’m impressed..
April 12th, 2010 at 1:49 pmi’m currently sitting on savings of $132.95 - compared to the same amount of consumption + dfc with my prior retailer.
Got half of winter paid for already to boot.
Didn’t expect i’d make savings to that degree in little over 2 months.
@Damian: Great! Thanks for the feedback.
April 12th, 2010 at 2:02 pmHi,
I am brand new to Powershop, literally got started tonight and am already impressed. Am trying to get myhead around which power packs to buy and am a little scared of tying my money up in specials now if the actual power at the time was going to drop in price. Is there anywhere on your site you can see what the trends have been, for example what packages were priced at for each month and what the actual price was at the time. I have had a look around your site but can’t find anything like that there. this would just help me make a more educated guess at what packs to buy until I am more used to this system.
Many thanks
April 12th, 2010 at 11:43 pm@Melanie:
Welcome aboard!
Unfortunately, we don’t have this information displayed on our website. We do intend to put up some historic pricing information, but because all customers pricing is different it is not as simple as it sounds to do that.
Anyway, to try and help you out… one of the benefits of buying powerpacks is that you might get a cheaper price overall (as you suggest), but there are other reasons to buy them:
(1) to get certainty of price (just like fixing a mortgage rate) in case prices go up further.
(2) to allow you to “smooth” your power costs. So buying some power now for a future period when you know your usage will be higher. This will help you avoid high winter power costs, for example.
In terms of our current power pack pricing though, I think that they are realistically priced and you shouldn’t end up too much out of pocket if you were to buy some.
April 13th, 2010 at 7:00 am@Melanie: My experience has been that powerpacks may or may not be cheaper. In particular, if I recall correctly, the winter 2009 powerpacks did not turn out to be a good deal. Powershop’s prices are affected by the prices on the wholesale electricity markets, which are driven mainly by rainfall in the hydropower catchments, which is fairly unpredictable.
Rather than trying to outguess price movements, it may be more important to be aware of your own consumption rates. The main thing is to avoid buying power and then not using it before it expires, because Powershop doesn’t give a refund when this happens.
Remember that you don’t have to buy in advance - you can stick with the traditional method of paying for power _after_ you’ve used it, while you figure things out.
April 13th, 2010 at 11:06 amHey Ari,
Something possibly worth looking at:
When i initially signed up, i got part-way through an online signup, then cancelled it (due to a check i needed to do) by going backward through all the pages deleting information.
When i called later that or the following day to signup; those details i had entered had already been entered into your system (despite me not fully accepting the signup)
Given the way that happened, I assume that once you click the “next” button on each page of the signup form it submits all those details through?
Would it not be better to have the script/ code hold all the details until the final page where customers would click a final “Submit” button to send all the information through to yourselves to complete a signup?
April 13th, 2010 at 12:58 pm-
Could prevent possible issues with switches/ withdrawals in future if someone was to 90% complete an online signup, then cancel it on a 2nd thought
@Damian:
Actually, since you signed up we have added a “Save my progress” button to deal with exactly the issue you raise
April 13th, 2010 at 1:06 pmI’ve made up a spreadsheet that formats the Account Statement export (to something like: http://images.trademe.co.nz/photoserver/94/124957794_full.jpg) automatically if anyone’s interested..
April 13th, 2010 at 9:22 pm@Damian:
Thanks for that. If you email though to info@powershop.co.nz (Attention: Ari) I will put it here on the blog for direct download.
April 13th, 2010 at 10:14 pmHi Ari,
April 14th, 2010 at 8:32 amabout powerpacks, you have said that they are part of the savings commitments - so in other words, if powerpacks turn out to be priced too high, we can trust that this will be off-set by future pricing reviews - and vice versa if too low?
@Jared:
Unfortunately we cannot give a blanket guarantee around powerpacks, because, some power packs are known to be more expensive (eg. those with carbon offsets attached). The weekly value packs will always be cheaper than everyday power, but we do not guarantee that, say, winter packs will be cheaper than buying everyday power - part of the rationale for buying them is to get certainty. Likewise, I can’t see a bank guaranteeing that its fixed mortgage rates will always be cheaper than its floating rates.
At the end of the day it is up to you to decide the best buying strategy for you. If you want to just buy everyday power and specials and not risk straying that is fine, but if you want to manage your seasonal power costs by buying in advance you will need to make a trade-off between price certainty and overall power cost.
April 14th, 2010 at 8:40 amFor anyone who is interested Damian’s statement formatter (mentioned above) can be downloaded from here.
Thanks Damian
April 14th, 2010 at 10:37 pmHere’s a dumb question: how do I read my meter.
I’m not an idiot, but just before switching from Genesis, they installed a new meter and it has a digital display cycling through all sorts of variations. It fills all LCD segments (e.g. 8888888.88), then shows something else, then “24hr 0003645.45″.
I *think* the one with “24hr” is my actual meterage, but I can’t be sure. It’s like some mad crazy insane UI developer built it to be tricky on purpose.
Any tips?
Oh and there’s a red button. I’m tempted to press it just for fun.
April 20th, 2010 at 4:02 pm@Ben:
You may indeed be a victim of “some mad crazy insane UI developer” - in our industry we call them engineers though
The one redeeming feature of the design is that it is possible to get a reading from the meter without having to actually look at it.
To be honest I don’t know whether the 24hr number is your actual usage, but looking at your account it seems a little high, unless your have a small scale factory in your backyard - I will check with someone who actually might *know* and get back to you.
PS: If you do press the red button can you let us me know what happens and send some photos so I can share in your enjoyment.
April 20th, 2010 at 4:32 pm@Ben & Ari:
The Red button likely has ‘Connect’ written by it yes? - this button is used for remote reconnections - the meter owner sends a signal to the meter to enable it, then use press the Red (connect) button to turn the supply of electricity back on…
As for the readings, if its the newer type of meter, it will cycle the Date, Time, Readings, current consumption (i think), and a test pattern (8888888), among other possible bits of info.
April 21st, 2010 at 2:12 pmGoing by the 24hr, it suggests to me that the setup of the meter is Uncontrolled/ Controlled or All inclusive (in which case the 24hr is the reading) - you’d be able to tell by reading the second page of a Genesis bill.. you’re looking for Household/ Classic XXXXXX (the X’s are the meter configuration)
To add to what i wrote above….
April 21st, 2010 at 2:39 pm24Hr = Uncontrolled(anytime) = Basically any power point.
..
The next display would be (unless you have gas hot water):
CtrL = Controlled = Generally your hot water.
..
Some of the other things it will display in addition to Date & Time -
LoAd = amount of electricty being used now in kWh(Kilowatt Hours).
SIG = Signal Strength
@Damian:
Thanks for your advice. We’ve actually managed to dig out a user manual for AMS meters!
So if you want to be able to read these meters yourself, or if for some reason you are curious about these meters go ahead and download it.
April 21st, 2010 at 5:41 pmI’ve a friend who’s moving properties abour 2 weeks, and just signed up not under the promo/join link. Is there anyway of getting under that promo or is that chance gone now?
May 3rd, 2010 at 2:34 pm@Damian
If you can login and leave “feedback” with your friends details we’ll see what we can do.
May 3rd, 2010 at 2:40 pmAri
can you explain the sudden price hike in my pricing plan?
i was quite happy so fat with what power shop was doing but all of sudden the price of poewr has GONE UP> and if you compar cent by cent with other retailers they come off way cheaper to what i am being charger now per unit.
May 12th, 2010 at 7:34 pm@Akmal:
We put our energy prices up several weeks ago to reflect our higher cost of power for the “winter”. While April is not strictly winter, the wholesale market normally trades in quarterly contracts, with the April quarter being the first quarter containing winter months.
Remember our prices will fall again in spring/summer and we are confident that most customers will save over the whole year. To help explain this we recently updated our website to include an animated case study.
This is the time of year when some of the other features of Powershop will help you and other customers reduced their power costs - by entering a meter reading once a week or so you will be able to see your power usage start to increase, and you will be able to monitor and manage it before it is too late.
I understand it is unpleasant when prices rise, but as I said, we remain confident that you will be better off with Powershop overall.
May 12th, 2010 at 8:41 pmHi Ari,
While I accept your explanation re: winter quarters, I must say I was surprised to see my power increase by about 2c per unit on May 1. If the wholesale market sets prices on quarters, why the second increase on May 1? Will there be another round of increases on June 1 before the start of the next “quarter” in July.
I have been very happy with PS so far and have banked savings of around $30 already (just 6 weeks down the track) so I’m not jumping ship but would like to know with some certainty whether monthly prices increases are the norm. Did I just misunderstand you when you said that prices were unlikely to change again until next quarter after the sharp April increase? I’m still learning how to make best use of PS and just want to understand this all a little better.
Thanks
May 13th, 2010 at 1:46 pm@Carol:
Good to hear that you have banked some savings already.
The increase at 1 April reflects the change in wholesale energy costs for the April quarter; the July quarter typically has similar wholesale prices, so we are not expecting further energy price increases this year.
The 1 May increase you saw is due to the “winter” network pricing in your area. This too is a seasonal change, and prices will drop again in October (full details Aurora’s pricing can be found here).
May 13th, 2010 at 4:20 pm@Ari
Thanks for that - it’s all much clearer now. At the end of the day, PS prices are still under my “break even” price from my old supplier so I’m happy. My true savings won’t kick in until I’ve experienced PS summer pricing - pity I timed my switch right on the winter quarter! Roll on summer
May 13th, 2010 at 5:14 pmI switched to Powershop from Meridian two months ago and have only now had a chance to compare in detail the difference between the two. Sadly, I am not very happy. My powerbill for May last year was $174 for 941 units total, which includes night rate. My May powerbill this year is $173 for 899 units total. If I had stayed with Meridian my bill would have only been $153. Having our water heating removed from the cheaper night rate is costing us big time. At this rate I fail to see how we can save over a year with Powershop.
May 21st, 2010 at 10:55 am@Susan:
Thanks for your feedback. A few comments in response:
1) This time of year our prices are higher, and they will drop again after winter (see http://www.powershop.co.nz/greater-savings-pricing.html for more information) when you savings will really start building up.
May 21st, 2010 at 11:07 am2) Remember you also receive a weekend rebate with us (I am not sure if you have factored this in).
3) Your water heating is still “connected” to your night rate meter, the more night time power you use the lower your overall price will be. So you still get the benefit of a lower night time rate, it is just that this comes in the form of a lower overall price.
4) We are confident that as customers become more aware of their consumption using the information Powershop provides they will use less power and save money.
@Ari:
May 21st, 2010 at 11:20 amThank you for your response. I understand that prices are higher over winter but I did not expect them to be $20 per month higher and we have only just started using the heat pump this week. I hate to think what the difference will be for our June powerbill. Because our hot water cylinder is now being heated 24 hours per day rather than at night only that is also having a significant effect.
Yes, I am aware of the weekend savings and now try and schedule our washing to be done then rather than throughout the week.
Our prices will have to drop very significantly after winter to make up for the much higher winter prices in order to achieve annual savings but right now I’m afraid I’m very much regretting switching over.
Susan, have you worked out the rates correctly?
May last year: $174 for 941 units is equivalent to $0.1849 per unit
May this year: $173 for 899 units is equivalent to $0.1924 per unit
If you use the old rate ($0.1849) multiplies May usage (899 units) gives $166.23. A difference of $6.78, not $20 difference.
May 21st, 2010 at 3:21 pm@Susan:
Sorry you feel that way.
I think you might also be a little confused about your hot water situation - I have just had a look at your account and it appears that you currently use approximately 57% of your power at night time - 37.5% controlled (which I assume is you hot water). You can see a breakdown of you unit prices for everyday power by clicking on the product from the “Buy power” page, and then clicking on the little “?” at the top right of the green product price panel. You are currently showing a unit price of 19.22 c/unit - this is made up of 25.81 c/unit based on your daytime usage and 14.25 c/unit based on your night time usage.
Sorry this is all a bit long winded and a little confusing, but what it means is that you are still getting the benefit of the lower night time prices and your hot water is not operating any differently to what it used to - it is just that we simplify this all into a single unit price to make it easier to compare products and specials etc.
Also, as Wayne points out you are not paying that much more (on a like for like basis) at the moment, and as I said earlier when our lower spring prices take effect your savings will start to ramp up. Again, if you look at the “Buy Power” page you will see summer products nearly 3.5c cheaper than current prices.
May 21st, 2010 at 3:57 pmDo your 20% weekend rabates apply to north canterbury/Waimakariri? What is the process if we are moving house and area with quite alot of pre purchased power?
May 25th, 2010 at 7:50 am@Warwick:
Our weekend rebates apply on the Orion network only. I am not 100% sure where the boundary is between Orion and Mainpower, but I think it may be somewhere around the Waimakariri river. We do not currently supply in the Mainpower area. Give us a call with your new address and we can check whether we can supply it or not.
If you move house into an area we supply we will transfer your account balance (using dollar value, rather than units as prices are likely to be different) to your new property. If you are moving to an area we don’t supply we will refund you any unused balance.
May 25th, 2010 at 8:18 amI have pusuaded a family member to shift her business power to powershop. Would I eligible for “refer a friend” deal and get some credits???
May 25th, 2010 at 9:00 am@Rahul:
Login and leave us some feedback (using the Contact Us button) with your friend’s details or phone us and we’ll take a look.
May 25th, 2010 at 9:08 am@Ari thats disapointing I dont want to leave powershop. When are you likely to supply mainpower areas? I dont want to be forced to go back to dealing with the evil power companys.
May 25th, 2010 at 2:18 pm@Warwick:
As much as we’d like to supply all areas, we took the decision about 3m ago to focus on the areas we already supply for a while. Every new area we take on incurs a time and cost overhead - negotiating agreements, setting up pricing etc. And there is also an ongoing resourcing requirement. Given that we have been achieving steady growth in the areas we are in we thought it more prudent to focus on managing what we already have, rather the risk spreading ourselves to thin. I guess this is a long-winded way of saying we have no immediate plans of going into Mainpower’s area at the moment. We will definitely extend our operating areas in future, but after a period of consolidation. I would say realistically that will be early in 2011.
In the meantime, you don’t have to completely severe your relationship with Powershop, you can use PowerSaver to continue to monitor your consumption
May 25th, 2010 at 3:48 pmHi Ari
May 25th, 2010 at 6:16 pmAbout the account review details emails sent out monthly, could you include the average unit cost both for the power used and power purchased?
@Felix:
I’ll take a look, I’m sure it’s possible. Not sure that the average price of power purchased is that meaningful though, as purchases could relate to different time periods.
May 25th, 2010 at 8:17 pmHi Ari,
We don’t have seperate day/night meters at our place. Is there any saving for me to use the ‘delay start’ function on our dishwasher and washing machine so that they come on overnight?
May 26th, 2010 at 9:05 am@Simon:
The short answer is no, there are no direct financial benefits to you. However, there are some less tangible benefits. The most obvious being you don’t need to listen to the racket of appliances while you eat dinner or watch TV. There are also potential environmental benefits too; during peak times it is more likely that less efficient higher emission thermal power stations will be operating, so if you can shift you usage out of those times you will be helping to reduce emmissions. There may also be longer term cost benefits if a large number of customers shift their usage off peak - this is certainly the case overseas.
So there are some benefits, albeit not directly to you. If these actions are of little cost or inconvenience to you then I would keep doing them.
May 26th, 2010 at 9:21 amThanks Ari - I like the idea of shifting the load offpeak to reduce emissions from coal and gas fired plants. There should be more publicity given to these kind of ideas in NZ. It’s pretty simple really given that most modern dishwashers and washing machines (frontloaders at least) have this feature. Cheers.
May 26th, 2010 at 9:51 pmHi Ari,
Just wondered how the ETS would affect PS prices. How much do you expect prices to go up by? Also, how would it impact prices of more environmentally friendly products on PS - would they become cheaper? Given that these price changes are just around the corner, i find it very strange that more people arent talking about it. I dont think the govt or the power companies want to talk about it either…Any thoughts on this?
Cheers.
May 26th, 2010 at 11:35 pm@Ajit:
Hi. There has been a bit of coverage of this in the media in the last couple of days (see today’s NBR).
Our view is that the ETS has been known for long enough that generators would have already factored the impact into wholesale prices, and likely also into retail prices. We don’t see any need to adjust our prices at the moment.
All electricity is bought from the wholesale market (see my earlier blog post, so the prices of the “environmentally friendly” or renewable products won’t change - it is really renewable generators that gain from the ETS scheme, but this is at it should be. After all the purpose of the ETS scheme is to encourage renewable generation and discourage thermal.
I expect that there will be some more discussion as implementation approaches, but as I said I think the scheme is already largely priced into the market so I would expect too much further impact on power prices.
May 26th, 2010 at 11:45 pmHi
i have reccently joined powershop but i am NOT at all convinced that you are the cheaper option out there. i already am payiing more if not the same to my last provider and i had to go through so much hussle to join thin company and get my head around things and at the end the change in price is NILL> very disappointing.
i am looking to get back to my previuos supllied who are offering me 150$ to join them as well as assuring me that their price is cheapers than powershop RIGHT now.
May 28th, 2010 at 5:41 pm@Marlese:
Sorry you feel that way Marlese. This time of year our prices are at there highest, our prices will drop again at the end of winter and your savings will start building up then. I am not sure who your previous supplier is, but you need to be careful that they are not telling your that their prices are cheaper NOW, but not letting on that with Powershop you will be better off over the course of the year. We have more information about how our pricing works here - http://www.powershop.co.nz/greater-savings-pricing.html
However, if you feel that your old retailer is offering you a better deal then we are happy to help transfer you back.
May 28th, 2010 at 6:23 pmits not how i feel but the reality on how i am being charged which is insane. i am being charged almost 22 cents per unit with this company where my previous company only charged me 18 cents per unit. there is a huge difference in pricing which does not makes sense to me. if you claim to be a better and cheaper company then be That.
by saying i will save over a few years time is NOT good enough to keep new customers especially if you are just another smaller Meridian trying to make millions for them.
May 29th, 2010 at 2:23 amoh and saving 50 dollars or so over a course of a year is not a big deal compared to amount of trouble i have been through in just changing and then getting myself familiar with your site which i need to have a degree in computing to use.
not to mention other retailers offer fly buys discounts and other points so the 50 dollar i save with this according to your own calculators are not good enough i just don’t know why would any one join this as you power companies are all ONE and your main aim is to get richer and charge the most.
May 29th, 2010 at 2:46 am@Marlese:
We are confident that we are competitively priced. Even if are not the absolute cheapest in your circumstances, we will be close to the cheapest. At this time of year you will be paying close to your old retailer, perhaps even a little more, but our prices go down during spring and summer (so you will save money long before next winter, not over a few years). You do need to be careful when comparing prices between retailers to make sure that you are making like-for-like comparisons. For example, our prices include GST and we have no daily fixed charges. We have built our savings calculator to help customers make this comparison. As you say other retailers may offer other benefits such as Fly Buys, but in our experience the equivalent monetary value of these rewards is not that much.
I accept that the way Powershop operates is different to the way other retailers, but it doesn’t need to be complicated. When you sign up your settings default to buying the cheapest Everyday product - you never need to log in again if you don’t want to. However, logging in and monitoring your usage and taking advantage of specials will help you save power and money.
Of course Powershop needs to be profitable (as do all retailers), but as an online business we have lower operating costs and we try hard to pass these savings on to customers. We are confident that we are the cheapest option for many customers and even in cases where we aren’t the cheapest the ability for customers to reduce power usage using the additional information we provide, combined with our specials will allow customers to save money.
May 29th, 2010 at 8:51 ami Am not convinced at all even by using your own calculator you are charging almost the same as what Genesis is charging so NO real difference.
if you are online based as you say you are then you should be way cheaper than the rest of the companies but you are either the same or more.
May 31st, 2010 at 3:59 am@Marlese:
At the end of the day you should make the choice that you are most comfortable with, but I would point out that our savings calculator makes no allowance for specials, or any reduction in usage, so if you are showing savings (even small ones) then you are likely to be better off with us.
May 31st, 2010 at 9:15 amHi Ari,
I am not impressed by the number of price increases in the last couple of months.
I was on 18.36c/unit till quite recently, then the price jumped up to 24c/unit and then after complaining it dropped to 21.8c/unit before jumping to 22.10c/unit again.
I bought a $49.95 powerpack last night for 22.10c/unit and the prices have gone up again today to 22.4c/unit. My account review is usually around the 9th of every month.
What is going on? As customers, I think we have a right to find out about any price increases in advance! These ad-hoc price increases are really getting on my nerve! I have been a loyal and happy Powershop customer for over a year now but I will most likely switch companies if this goes on.
- Shreyas
June 1st, 2010 at 10:43 am@Shreyas:
I understand Jim called you today to explain what is happening with your pricing.
June 1st, 2010 at 9:53 pmAri
i also am not impressed by price hiked that i have encountered with my plan. i have no idea why all of a sudden the prices have all gone up.
if it continues i have no option but to switch companies who are charging less at-least for the winter time.i hope you understand what we mean.its NOT fair to pay more in winter where the budget of most house holds are very tide.
June 6th, 2010 at 3:50 pm@Akmal:
Hi. There are two factors influencing your price changes:
1. Wholesale energy prices are now reflecting Winter rates.
2. Aurora - the lines company in Dunedin - have higher winter rates.
Both of these are seasonal factors, and as I think I have mentioned to you in the past our objective is to save customers money over the course of the year. There will be times during the year when savings will not be large (or in fact you may pay slightly more in some cases).
Looking at your account I estimate you have saved in excess of $350 since you joined us in August, so I think we are well and truly living up to our commitments to you.
June 6th, 2010 at 9:16 pmI’m curious.. what prompted the change to exclude September in the Spring Power Pack?
June 10th, 2010 at 7:02 amWe talking expected wholesale prices or …?
On another topic..
June 10th, 2010 at 9:13 amIf i was to get my metering changed from a UN/CN confg to a Day/Night Config (while keeping the exisiting load control relay).
Would my rates reflect the load control or would i be charged at the standard uncontrolled Day/ Night rates?
@Damian:
We took September out of the Spring pacsks, because this overlapped with the Winter packs and created a situation where people were reluctant to buy both, and yes the winter packs were aligned to match Q3 wholesale contracts.
In terms of your question regarding UN/CN and D/N - these highlight the two different elements of supply, one relates to “control” (the ability of a lines company to turn load on and off) and time-of-use (day versus night). Different lines companies value these differently, some lines companies value shift load off-peak highly, while others place greater value on the ability to control load. In general terms, and depending on how lines companies pricing structure works you can benefit from reduced pricing by having both control and day/night metering. Whether you specifically benefit is dependent on how much you use at night versus day. If you are considering such a change I would recommend you call Steve or Nikos on 0800 462 668 and get them to work through the pros and cons with you.
June 10th, 2010 at 9:29 amHi, I have been told that my power unit charge has increased because I have gas hot water therefore the power company can’t control it, so I pay more, yay not.
June 10th, 2010 at 7:06 pmAnyway are you able to give me some idea of how much I pay per unit extra because of that please.
I have a friend who is thinking of changing to gas hot water and she would like to know as well.
@Carolyn:
The difference in cost will vary by area, and how much power you use. In your area, the prices for uncontrolled power will be about 2c/kWh (approx 10%) higher.
The best way to get a good fix on the difference would be to go to our savings calculator and enter your approximate annual usage and compare the prices/cost between an “Inclusive” (also sometimes called “Economy”) rate and an “Uncontrolled” (sometimes called “Anytime”) rate. The savings calculator has both our prices and some of the other retailers (for those that publish their tariffs).
June 10th, 2010 at 11:26 pmIn the June issue of Consumer: Powershop is again the cheapest power company in Dunedin, Christchurch, Wellington, Auckland and Manukau for large, medium and small households. Great job guys.
June 11th, 2010 at 9:01 pmSoon, if not already, fear of losing customers to Powershop will become a factor for other power companies considering a price increase.
I look forward to Gerry Brownlie’s commendation of Powershop for services to competition in the electricity retail market.
June 12th, 2010 at 8:58 am@Peter:
Hehe. I’m not holding my breath
June 12th, 2010 at 9:11 amHi Ari,
Just wondering if there is any way for me to see my consumption broken down by Weekday, Weekend day, Nights. I havent been on a D/N meter before, so havent received an invoice from a tradional power company to know, but I assume that this kind of information would be provided. Surely if they can do it, Powershop can too? I would really like to know how much of a difference i am making by shifting consumption to off peak times. It would also make it easier for me to justify the incoveniencies to my significant other.
On another note, heard about Mercury having to go back on their contracts in Dunedin because they mistook it for Dannevirke!!!
June 12th, 2010 at 10:25 pm@Ajit:
Hi. I am sure we could do a better job of it, but for now you can see this data if you go to your “Daily Consumption” chart (under “My Account”) and select “Raw Data” using the dropdown box just above the chart. Once you’ve done this you can then select the “Show per-register consumption” using the checkbox and this will show you the components of your consumption.
June 12th, 2010 at 10:33 pmGreat! Thanks, thats good enough for now.
June 12th, 2010 at 11:17 pmhey ari,
just a quick question - i know you guys have got things in the development pipeline - when do you think we can get to see powershop 2.0?
June 14th, 2010 at 12:31 pm@Ajit:
Hi. We are just about to kick off development of a new “product” that will provide customers with even more flexibility to manage their power costs. As part of this we will need to modify the way the current shop works. We therefore won’t be making any major changes in the meantime. You can expect to see some changes in 2-3 months I would think.
June 15th, 2010 at 10:01 amHi Ari, first of all really good on you for personally responding to all the questions, even the vexatious ones.
Please forgive me if these questions have already been answered, there’s a lot to read through here.
How do we know if we have a smart meter? I thought we did (it certainly LOOKS smart), but it doesn’t update on our account on the website. We have never had anyone come and read our meter.
Also a question regarding Day/Night: My reading of your comments here suggests that the price of the power we purchase is averaged out to somewhere in between (what was) the day/night rates. Does this mean that it’s no longer cheaper for us to put the washing/dishwasher/dryer on overnight? Why do we sometimes run out of hot water in the evening after doing the washing up - can we do anything to prevent this somehow if we wanted to?
Cheers
June 16th, 2010 at 12:43 pm@Tim:
Thanks.
You do have an AMS smart meter. While we get daily consumption information from these meters AMS only provide us the readings file once per week. In your case we expect this to happen tomorrow. What you will see then is your daily information for the past week.
In answer to your Day/Night question, you will still benefit from higher night time usage as we adjust the weighting of your prices based on your actual usage. The higher your night time proportion, the lower your prices will be.
And unfortunately there is not much we can do about your hot water. Orion (the network company) uses ripple control to turn hot water off during peak times to avoid overloading the network - while this is inconvenient it will mean you have lower network charges overall.
June 16th, 2010 at 5:13 pmOur landlord won’t give us access to our power meter. This is disappointing as we switched to Powershop for the ability to manage our usage as closely as possible. Can you do a weekly reading for us, or install a smart meter? Thanks.
June 17th, 2010 at 10:27 am@Peter:
Unfortunately we can’t arrange for weekly meter readings because our contractor works on a 4-weekly round. But call us on 0800 462 668 and ask for Nikos - he can look into smart meter options for you.
June 17th, 2010 at 10:37 amHi Ari,
June 17th, 2010 at 12:59 pmAny chance of getting the ‘products purchased’ page outputted to a csv file as well?.
Would make life easier than doing the copy-paste thing for multiple pages of it..
@Damian:
Sure, I’ll add it to the list
June 17th, 2010 at 1:00 pm
If that list is anything like the list (for the retailer i work for) i know of, it’s gotta be nothing short of huge.
June 17th, 2010 at 1:07 pmhmm.. perhaps i’ll tech myself PHP and have a looksee/play with the powershop API.
@Damian:
You’re right, we’ve got no shortage of ideas, just a shortage of time and money to implement them.
June 17th, 2010 at 8:41 pmHey Ari, hopefully you can clarify this for me - Trying to understand how the ‘Monthly Power Cost’ graph is calculated, is it something like:
June 22nd, 2010 at 11:04 am- Units consumed over given 30 day period * average unit price for said period?
Or - is it based more on the products purchased (that have been consumed in given period) and tallying each products cost?
@Damian:
This graph takes the actual consumption between two meter readings and allocates that consumption on a pro-rata basis to any relevant months. For any months which we do not yet have complete data (ie. the current month, and in some cases the month prior) we assume you have/will consume at your current daily average consumption. We then take the total consumption for any given month and “allocate” the cost of any units you have purchased (or your default product if you are in arrears).
June 22nd, 2010 at 12:27 pmokay, couple more queries..
1. The readings used for the pr-rata, are they readings nearest the beginning and end of the applicable month (if available)?
eg: May is pro-rata’d using reads from say 28 may and 10 may?
2. i assume that the allocating of the cost of any units purchased, is for those units only applicable to said month?
June 22nd, 2010 at 1:22 pm@Damian:
1. We will use the readings that are used in your account review, to ensure that the numbers match.
June 22nd, 2010 at 1:25 pm2. Yes. Think of the chart as built up using a series of repeat “mock” account reviews.
In the process of attempting to onvince some more friends to join, i’ve been wondering whether you’re anticipating any (major) changes to the standard pricing for the Hamilton region in the near future (not counting the usual variations).
June 29th, 2010 at 11:29 am@Damian:
No, we don’t have anything outside of the usage based adjustments planned. All going to plan the next price change should be a decrease in spring
June 29th, 2010 at 12:24 pmCool
i’m liking that idea.
June 29th, 2010 at 2:08 pmMeans, i may still manage to save on my bills over winter!..
We’re currently (on average) ~1-1.5c/kWh under the average i would be on for my prior retailer.
.. Helps having told that flatties to use as much hot water as they want (keeps the cost down)
Hi Ari,
Just a question about the ‘remaining units’ box.
I’ve noticed it seems to jump around more than I’d expect when entering actual reads. Eg: this morning it said I had 623 remaining based on est usage of 20.9 kwh/day.
June 30th, 2010 at 12:30 pmWhen I entered an actual reading which was only 10 units lower than the PS estimate reading, the Units Remaining shot up to 787. Shouldn’t it only have jumped up by 10 units, not 164? Or am i misunderstanding how this display works? Cheers in advance.
@Simon:
What you will probably find is that future powerpacks are jumping in and out of your unit balance. We include all continuous units from today in the unit balance. If you currently have enough units to take you through to July, we will include July powerpacks in the balance, but if you only have enough units to take you through to some time on 31 June, they will be excluded (this also applies to future months ie. if you are paid up until the end of July, August units will also be included).
Hope this explains it
June 30th, 2010 at 2:22 pmAhhh that would make sense, I have some Easter packs which are still to ’start’ next month. This would also explain why I have seen it go the other way too (drop down instead of shoot up). Thanks again for the prompt+logical response.
June 30th, 2010 at 3:20 pmHi Ari,
Any idea when Powershop will be available in Wattle Cove, Manurewa. I tried to sign up but got told Powershop wasn’t available… we are in Auckland!
July 7th, 2010 at 10:07 pmThanks.
@Martin:
Hi. I am pretty sure we can supply you. If you select “Region” = Auckland and “District” = Manukau, there is a suburb “Wattle Downs” - is that the same area as Wattle Cove (excuse my ignorance I’m a Wellingtonian)?
July 7th, 2010 at 11:27 pmThanks Ari… yes, Wattle Cove is the newer area of Wattle Downs. I will try again.
July 8th, 2010 at 1:41 pmQuick question. Would there be any benefit in getting a smart meter for a user that currently has a single meter on standard anytime pricing? We do use quite a bit of electricty at night thanks to the need to heat kid’s bedrooms, and were wondering if there might be some benefits to be had from going to day/night pricing. Thanks.
July 15th, 2010 at 4:17 pm@Stu:
The benefits very much depend on which network area your are in. I see you are in Wellington. To get the benefit of night rate pricing you need a “dedicated night meter” - that is, it will only supply power at night. This would require installing a meter and relay and new wiring to the appliances that you wanted to operate on this meter.
Give us a call on 0800 462 668 if you want to discuss options further.
July 15th, 2010 at 5:15 pmI apologise if my question has previously been addressed. I’m in Christchurch where we receive 20% off our power costs on a Saturday and Sunday between 7am and 9pm. What I have been trying to determine is whether power on the weekends is cheaper between 7am and 9pm (utilising the 20% discount) or between 9pm and 7am (utilising the night rate charge)?
July 17th, 2010 at 10:42 pm@Fe:
This depends a little bit on the time of year and your overall usage. At the moment weekend night time power is cheaper than the weekend daytime.
You can check this from time to time yourself. Your weekend day rebate gives you a 5c/unit on your weekday daytime usage. You can see your current day and night rates for any Everyday product by clicking the ? in the pricing panel - if your day rate is more than 5c/kWh higher than your night time rate, then night time power will be cheaper.
July 17th, 2010 at 11:08 pmThanks for your reply Ari.
Does this mean that if I purchase one of the ‘value packs’ it won’t include a night rate component?Am I therefore better off only purchasing ‘everyday’ power if I want my power consumption to cost less?
July 19th, 2010 at 10:02 pm@Fe:
No, all products you purchase will include a night rate component - the price you see is the price you pay. It is just that we don’t display the breakdown on power packs at this point.
July 19th, 2010 at 10:04 pmHi Ari,
We are moving from our own house in Rolleston to a rented property in Queenstown. I have Future packs that i will not be able to use and therefore will be getting a refund when i move next month. However, i was wondering if it was possible to use up August’s quota of future packs this month rather than having to buy power for the remainder of this month and then getting a refund next month?
July 22nd, 2010 at 9:32 pm@Ajit:
I’ll have a chat to the ops team tomorrow and have a look at what is possible - we may be able to hold off your next account review until your final reading.
The other option is to sign your Queenstown property up with Powershop using our move house process which will automatically refund you August units and credit it to your account to use at the new property.
July 22nd, 2010 at 9:42 pmThanks for looking into it Ari. It will be a few days before i can sign up the QT property to Powershop - the final papers are yet to be signed. Expect that to happen in the next few days - but Powershop will buy power for me on the 26th. Also, would prefer to sign up the QT property closer to our move in date which is the 8th of August.
July 22nd, 2010 at 10:59 pmHi Ari,
August 5th, 2010 at 12:27 pmWondering if i’m missing something..
In my account, looking at the monthly purchases, June registered $293.12.
However, when i download the account statement, the total for June comes to $288.96
@Damian:
There will be a slight difference between purchases and power used because of pre-purchases. Your monthly purchases show what you have bought during the month, whereas your statement shows the cost of the power you *used* during the month, which will be lower if, for example you had purchased specials or powerpacks prior to June.
August 5th, 2010 at 1:41 pmI’m not following - I was comparing the actual purchases between the Monthly Purchases graph and the cost of purchases as shown on the account statement export..
August 5th, 2010 at 3:09 pmAre the indivual transactions i made during june what the Monthly Purchases graph is calculated from?
If so - with each purchase showing on the account statement export, should i not be able to tally the Cost of each purchase during the month of June and compare that to the amount listed under the relevant month in the Monthly Purchases page?
@Damian:
Sorry, I misunderstood your question. The difference between the two numbers is the free Winter 20 power you received ($4.17) with a small rounding error. This is included in your monthly purchases total, but is 0 in the statement because you weren’t charged anything for this power.
August 5th, 2010 at 4:07 pmAhh, that makes sense. thanks Ari
August 5th, 2010 at 4:41 pmHi,
The RSS feed for your blog is not updating. If you go to the main page, press news and blog and then hit the RSS feed to the comments, it is traped back in 2009.
I would like to have an RSS updating to these comments if that is possible.
Thanks
August 6th, 2010 at 12:28 pm@Aaron:
There is a separate RSS feed for each post - the link (including comments) can be found below the “recent comment” section on the right of each page. For the “Ask the crew” post the feed is http://blog.powershop.co.nz/?feed=rss2&p=60
August 6th, 2010 at 2:12 pmThe feed with all the comments is at http://blog.powershop.co.nz/wp-commentsrss2.php
August 6th, 2010 at 5:55 pmThanks Felix, you learn something everyday
August 6th, 2010 at 5:57 pmHi Ari,
August 13th, 2010 at 7:58 amI notice when looking at my meter readings under my account there are no derived figures - only the weeky total. Why is this? Cheers
@Simon:
AMS have had some database issues over the past week or so, and have been unable to supply us with the half hourly data used to create these “derived” readings. This does not affect your billing, because this is based on different data, but it does mean you will have a few holes in your daily data. AMS have assured us they are working as quickly as possible to fix the problem.
August 13th, 2010 at 9:20 amThe development we live in includes an indoor pool, sauna and gym complex for residents. A new committee has just come on board and we’re looking to save money where we can - the pool/sauna is costing us thousands each month to run.
My own family are very satisfied Powershop customers but I suspect others on the committee might be wary of switching to something so ‘different’. Where do you recommend we start?
August 13th, 2010 at 9:57 am@PJM:
Probably the best thing for you to do would be to call one of our business team (0800 472 952), they will be able to give you an estimate of potential savings and any other info you might need to help your committee see the light
August 13th, 2010 at 1:16 pmThanks for that!
August 13th, 2010 at 4:51 pmWhy does the daily consumption graph consistently show 3 contiguous days of “Weekend day” consumption when this obviously impossible? If the network rebate is paid out on the blue area on the graph, please don’t investigate further
August 18th, 2010 at 12:49 pmI answered my own question by looking at the meter readings which for me are read at about 1400 each day, so the 2 weekend day registers are split across three reading days.
Is it not possible to construct a better graph by logic or better yet using the half hour readings?
By “better” I mean the graph is misleadingly continuous whereas the register reads are effectively discrete with differnt time boundarys and cannot be aggregated as an area graph. It looks like my weekend day consumption is highest on Sunday but this is just because it has the most weekend day hours accumulated from 1400 Saturday to 1400 Sunday.
Anyway i would appreciate a reply at least!
August 26th, 2010 at 1:46 pmAri
how are you going? i would not think after this long i would still be with powershop
anyhow i am NOT happy at all with your winter prices, if you see my details the winter bill of mine jumped more than 50%. is that a way of taking more from customers and charging us more in winter and less in summer??
also what month does Spring start is NZ? as the spring prices in the shop start from october i thought it be September?
August 26th, 2010 at 1:48 pm@Aaron:
Sorry, I overlooked your earlier question.
Anyway, yes I am sure we can do a better job of how we represent the register data, but like a lot of things it is not necessarily as easy at it might first appear.
The reason the charts are as they are is mainly because they we built before we introduced the weekend rebate structure - prior to that there wasn’t really a need to distinguish time slices.
The main issue we have had is that the readings we get from Arc have not been timestamped, so while the register content over a period of time will sum to the correct consumption the timing of this may not be accurate. Of course we know that all consumption on the “weekend register” occurs on Saturday and Sunday, however on a Saturday when the meter reading file comes in we do not know how much of Friday the “weekday” register covers. We are now getting timestamps on the readings, but we would still have to estimate how much of the “weekday” registers consumption was on Friday versus Monday.
Sorry, a bit of a long winded explanation. In summary, I am sure we can do a better job, but it does have some complexity. We have been aware of this issue for a wee while, and will include a fix in the development plans.
August 26th, 2010 at 3:46 pm@Akmal:
yes, long time no speak
I am pleased that you gave us the benefit of the doubt and have stuck with us. I am sure that despite your winter pricing, you will have saved money with us overall.
I can understand your concern about winter prices. Unfortunately, the summer/winter difference in Dunedin is bigger than in other parts of the country. This is because you have a difference in energy price, but also a difference in lines charges that Aurora levy us.
You can see network pricing on - on the Aurora website (pdf). For a “General Purpose” connection (for example) Summer network charges (including transmission) are 6c/kWh and 8.97c/kWh for Winter.
Similarly, wholesale energy prices can be seen on the EnergyHedge website. Today prices at Benmore for October - December 2010 are 4.51c/kWh and for April-June 2011 are 10.7c/kWh.
As you can there is currently a 9c/kWh (excl GST) difference between the summer and winter costs of supplying your power. This is much bigger than the 50% increase in prices you have seen, and as you know your prices will drop again in spring and summer.
So, no it is not our way of charging you more, our pricing merely reflects the costs of supplying power at different times of the year.
In terms of your question about “spring”, the wholesale energy market tends to have contracts that cover calendar quarters, so the spring quarter is October - December, and the Summer quarter is January - March.
August 26th, 2010 at 4:03 pmDo you get the half hour data from Arc? Graphing that would make the issues with register/ date boundarys go away and be more useful for me to usnderstand what is going on daily.
August 26th, 2010 at 4:19 pm@Aaron:
Unfortunately not. We are pushing the boundaries in a number of areas, but meter owners are not geared up to provide the information we would like, primarily because no other retailer has ever asked for it.
We receive daily consumption information from Arc - on a daily basis and we receive half-hourly information from AMS, but only on a weekly basis. If we could merge the two we’d have what we need
August 26th, 2010 at 6:27 pmHow is the GST increase going to effect prepaid electricity?
August 27th, 2010 at 1:24 pmIf the answer is good from the customer point of view (which I believe it will be if the supply is before 1 Oct 2011) please consider putting up some long term purchases (eg: 6/12 months of 25 unit baseload packs) for 30 September buyers. If the price is right the extra 2.5% is better than bank deposit rates and hopefully you can find some friendly suppliers!
@Aaron
August 27th, 2010 at 4:32 pmI like the way you think.
@Aaron
I am not so sure about that. In March I bought a few Winter Packs at 23c to be used from May to Aug. In May to Aug, power was actually selling for 21c. The risk of price fluctuations on Powershop is quite large.
@Ari
August 27th, 2010 at 11:15 pmIs there anything you can do to make customers more confident to buy futures not having to worry it would actually be cheaper later?
@Aaron @Peter:
We are working on a programme of pre-GST change communications at the moment. Certainly, any of our existing products can be purchased until the end of the September at 12.5% GST. We are taking some advise on what might more we are allowed to do under the transitional guidelines.
@Felix:
August 28th, 2010 at 7:18 amYou are correct that pricing closer to the time may vary. We expect these fluctuations to be smaller in the future as we have more scale now we are better able to predict our energy costs. We also factor in a “time value” discount into our longer dated products which also helps keep the headline price of those products down.
Felix says “The risk of price fluctuations on Powershop is quite large” and I agree. That makes buying ahead a risky strategy unless you believe there is a real risk of rising prices (e.g. due to a dry year).
My buying strategy was to buy ahead for winter if the price was less than the mean unit price for my power in the year before I joined Powershop - so the target was to stay under 22.4c. The only problem with this strategy was the higher risk of not having bought ahead if prices soared in a dry winter.
Since 1990 CPI inflation has averaged around 2.5% so we could save by buying up to a year ahead before the GST increase. but if you’re borrowing at 6%pa then the potential saving will be consumed in about 5 months.
But price variability can easily wipe that out. 2.5% of 20c is only 0.05c. The prices for the power I’ve bought have varied by much more over the year: 17c to 22c. Also 0.03c is the current saving between standard power and the standard power value pack. So judicious purchasing during the year has saved me much more than 0.05c.
For example, I believed that risk of prices spiking could be somewhat reduced by relying on the Powershop’s flexibility as to where units can be used. When prices are rising, I can buy more of the power for this month which can be used until the account review next month. Plus I can try to buy it earlier because prices can rise by 0.05c in a month. When prices are dropping, buy more of the power for next month which can be used this month after the account review. I can also buy it as late as possible because within a month the price can drop by an additional 0.05c.
August 28th, 2010 at 11:30 am@Mark:
Sounds like you have thought long and hard about your buying strategy - this is good.
I guess the further ahead you buy the greater the risk that you end up paying too much, however with a known step-change (ie. GST increase) it does make sense to try and take advantage of that - perhaps the safest thing to do is to buy a larger than normal block of power for the next 2 to 3 months. To aid such a strategy, we have reviewed our “expiry” policy and have decided that we will refund the purchase price of any expired credits. This will be implemented shortly, certainly before the GST change becomes effective.
August 28th, 2010 at 6:08 pm@Mark 2.5% of 20c is 0.5c. My buying tatics (strategy = lowest price with no chance of unused power - so if pshop buy back unused power i’ll get more agressive) have given me monthly average prices of 18.24 up to 22.46 over 12 months (exclusive of the network rebate - I don’t think the graphs factor that in).
August 30th, 2010 at 1:42 pmThats a range of ~4c so beating the GST rise is worth 12.5% or so of that variation which i’d consider worthwhile enough to pay say six months in advance for.
@Aaron
We seem to have similar problems:
You are correct: 2.5% of 20c is 0.5c. But you are not correct in saying “beating the GST rise is worth 12.5% or so of that variation”. It is the increase only, which is 2.5% (= 15% - 12.5%).
I thought I’d look at actual figures.
Comparing current prices for Spring and Summer power with what I paid last year:
So I’m unlikely to buy to avoid a GST increase of less than 0.5c (2.5% of 18c is 0.45c).
What could make me decide TO BUY in advance to save on the GST increase?
1) the price of Spring and/or Summer packs reducing - I’ll wait and see.
2) the likelihood that actual spring and summer prices will be higher than last year - doesn’t seem very likely to me.
Also I’d probably be paying for it with bank money at 6%pa so that adds a cost of 0.5% for October, 1.0% for November, 1.5% for December, etc. The updated table makes this less attractive:
On the other hand I think that there is little risk of actual prices being significantly lower than last year. So I would buy as soon as the difference is less than the GST increase.
August 30th, 2010 at 8:19 pm
Well, I won’t try tabulating data again. The ‘Act.’ and ‘Fut.’ labels should be under the years to represent Actual 2009 and Future 2010
August 30th, 2010 at 8:22 pm@Aaron
August 30th, 2010 at 8:30 pmRe average monthly prices, I was wondering why my average prices were lower than yours. I’m in the Hutt Valley and we don’t get a network rebate. I’m used 14,500KwH in 2009 and will use the same this year.
I suspect that the my lowest is much lower because we use solar water heating which means my summer usage drops so much that Powershop specials are a larger proportion.
@Mark:
I reformatted your original comment with tables so that the data aligns
August 30th, 2010 at 8:33 pm@Ari
August 30th, 2010 at 8:41 pmYou said that “I guess the further ahead you buy the greater the risk that you end up paying too much”
But there seems to be more reasons for prices to increase than to decrease.
So in practice, I am buying ahead to counter the greater risk that prices will increase - just like I can fix my mortgage interest rate.
.
Do you think a price drop is either possible or probable in 2011 when compared with 2009 and 2010 prices?
@Mark:
While last years prices may have some bearing on your decision to purchase pre-GST increase or not, the real factor in my mind is whether you think that the actual price you pay for “everyday power” at some point in the future is likely to be more than 2.5% cheaper than today’s price of power packs covering the same period plus some allowance for the interest cost of purchasing early.
While we cannot guarantee this, as stated above we have more predictability in our wholesale energy costs now that we have some scale and I expect it unlikely that future prices will be much lower than today’s powerpacks. Also, as I mentioned above we do make some provision for “time value” in pricing our powerpacks, although it probably wouldn’t fully compensate for interest costs.
For my money, if you are inclined to take advantage of the GST change I would probably buy some power for the next 2-3 months when the risk of major movements is lower, and the interest costs are also lower. Buying much further out than that does have higher risk of the issues you have identified.
August 30th, 2010 at 8:44 pm@Mark:
Seems we have overlapping posts
In answer to your latest my quote “I guess the further ahead you buy the greater the risk that you end up paying too much” mainly refers to the risk of buying large chunks of power to take advantage of the lower GST rate, but prices decreasing by more than 2.5% - obviously the longer the period, the greater the uncertainty.
Your analogy with mortgage rates is exactly right. You lock in a rate (that may be higher or lower than today’s floating rate) to give yourself certainty. Over the period of the fixed term though the floating rate will change and you may end up being better, or worse off depending on how those movements went.
Whether or not prices in 2011 will be lower than 2010 or 2009 is not really the point. The point is do you think the “everyday” power price (floating rate) will be higher or lower than today’s powerpack prices (fixed rate) for the same time period. If you want certainty, then you will be inclined to buy some powerpacks (to protect against upwards price movements), but that does not necessarily guarantee that you will end up with the lowest possible costs.
August 30th, 2010 at 8:53 pmJust chance that 0.5/4=12.5%=Rate of GST but 0.5c is 12.5% of the top to bottom variation of 4c which is worth a punt on for 6 months or so. Especially if i am buying out of savings @ 3% pre tax rater than debt at 6% post tax. Agree that the specials would have to look worth it say 18-19c for summer.
My average prices are Christchurch based and the differences are likely because i am a low user ~8000 kWh pa and have low winter electricity consumption (log burner) and high summer consumption (0.5hp pool pump). Network charges are a higher percentage of my average price and don’t have much seasonal variation.
The day night split also has a big influence and all of this stuff is hidden behind powershop having all these factors rolled into one price which is recalcuated in advance each time the account is settled. Personally i’d prefer to be able to see the detail but i doubt this is the view of 99.9% of actual customers and not the powershop way.
So I can’t compare my average price to my parents as our annual consumption and day night mix is differnt even though we have the same metering set up on the same network our aveagre prices were quite different last time i looked. There is a comment on this blog somewhere about it.
August 31st, 2010 at 10:09 amAri, I was wondering what would happen if there was some catastrophic event and wholesale prices went to the moon. How long would the vanilla power companies keep taking new domestic connections
August 31st, 2010 at 10:22 am@Aaron:
Interesting question
The answer is probably complex, but I’ll have a crack at it.
1. Opportunity cost: under such a scenario all retailers will be losing money on retail sales and would be better off not selling to residential customers. However, if they have wholesale contract cover in place, or generation of their own that covers their sales this is an opportunity cost, rather than a cash cost. If the exposure is largely opportunity cost and the “event” is likely to be relatively short term (ie. weeks) then I would expect it would be business as usual for retailers.
2. If the event is weather driven (ie. dry) then, again, I would expect retailers to take a longer term view of customer profitability and stick to business as usual.
3. Structural shift: If the nature of high wholesale prices is structural (eg. ETS, or Government energy reforms) or loner term (eg. multi-year failure of critical plant, such as the HVDC link) I would expect all retailers would adjust their retail pricing to reflect their cost and risk.
So, overall I think it unlikely that a retailer would cease taking domestic connections. Their preference, to protect the long term value of their businesses, would be to re-price.
August 31st, 2010 at 10:31 am@Ari
September 1st, 2010 at 2:26 pm1. Bought Spring power packs (October-November) two weeks ago for 18.6c and see November 500 is 19.07c. Why such a significant increase?
.
2. I’d like to see the estimated units for the current month in “The Power Organiser (Estimate)”. They are shown for future months but not for the current month. For example, from the “Products Purchased” report I can find 1,475 units for the balance of August and the whole of September. But I want to be able to see how many units Powershop is estimating to be available for September.
There are two reasons why I need to rely on the units and not the days coverage:
a) Between July and October our power usage rapidly declines month by month. Over three months it halves; and
b) Powershop doesn’t accurately estimate our future usage. For example, Powershop overestimates by +50% for October-November and +100% for December. But I don’t know how it has allocated the units for August and September.
@Ari
I take number 2 back. I’d completely forgotten about the “Available unit balance”! Not enough sleep.
September 1st, 2010 at 2:30 pmOops!
@Mark:
1. The spring packs were a discounted product to encourage customers to buy them in advance. Your “everyday” power prices have remained steady for a while now, and will start to fall over coming weeks.
September 2nd, 2010 at 9:25 am2. No worries. We are thinking about ways we can improve our future months forecasts, or perhaps make it customisable so you can have a stab at it yourself
@Mark:
fyi - we are putting the spring pack back on the shelf later today for 1 week only.
We have also changed our policy and will refund expired units, so if you do end up buying too much you will get refunded the purchase price.
September 2nd, 2010 at 12:07 pmI love rss
Right now i am about to buy a spring is sprung special but have the message “We estimate the number of units … risk … expiring … reduce size of your purchase”.
Is this new policy retrospective as i already have septemeber pretty well covered and although this is a little mean sprited will the cheapest units be used first and the dearest ones refunded or maybe you haven’t got the fine details sorted out yet
So should i press buynow?
September 2nd, 2010 at 12:26 pm@Aaron:
The policy is effective now. We haven’t quite finished the development to make the refunding automatic, but it should be in place by the time any September units expire. If you do have some units expire and you don’t get refunded, login and send “feedback” (or call us) and we will refund them manually for you.
September 2nd, 2010 at 12:30 pm